Nearly £60k down-valuation by lender

MobileSaver

Crashy_Time said:

1) I don`t think your sentiment towards new builds is representative of the general experience really, you may be incorrectly generalising something you see locally to the wider market?

2) it is likely that younger people who can do so will return to parents for a while rather than struggle to maintain a private flat on reduced hours or benefits

3) Liar Loans helped to inflate the market, historically low interest rates helped to keep the prices inflated but with less people able or willing to buy at those prices, none of this is a good outcome for ordinary hard working money savers. The best outcome IMO is cheap property that people can buy without going into debt for 35 years

1) I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make? Is a brand new tarmacked road another prerequisite for "basic shelter"?!?!

2) Is there any evidence it is "likely" younger people will return to their parents? Anecdotally I've never known anyone who would return back to their parents unless there was absolutely no other choice. I have heard of it happening to others but only very occasionally so I think your theory of a mass exodus back to parents is somewhat wide of the mark. (Actually my 50 year old mate did do just that a year or so ago but that was primarily a messy divorce situation.  )

3a) So basically you agree that every time you bang on about transactions being less than their decade-ago peak that actually means the property market is much healthier than it was ten years ago.

3b) There's plenty of cheap property about, the problem is that people don't want cheap basic shelter, they want nice homes in nice places. Here's a two bed flat in Edinburgh for around £100k, how much cheaper do you think "basic shelter" should be?!?!

Crashy_Time

MobileSaver said:

Crashy_Time said:

1) I don`t think your sentiment towards new builds is representative of the general experience really, you may be incorrectly generalising something you see locally to the wider market?

2) it is likely that younger people who can do so will return to parents for a while rather than struggle to maintain a private flat on reduced hours or benefits

3) Liar Loans helped to inflate the market, historically low interest rates helped to keep the prices inflated but with less people able or willing to buy at those prices, none of this is a good outcome for ordinary hard working money savers. The best outcome IMO is cheap property that people can buy without going into debt for 35 years

1) I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make? Is a brand new tarmacked road another prerequisite for "basic shelter"?!?!

2) Is there any evidence it is "likely" younger people will return to their parents? Anecdotally I've never known anyone who would return back to their parents unless there was absolutely no other choice. I have heard of it happening to others but only very occasionally so I think your theory of a mass exodus back to parents is somewhat wide of the mark. (Actually my 50 year old mate did do just that a year or so ago but that was primarily a messy divorce situation.  )

3a) So basically you agree that every time you bang on about transactions being less than their decade-ago peak that actually means the property market is much healthier than it was ten years ago.

3b) There's plenty of cheap property about, the problem is that people don't want cheap basic shelter, they want nice homes in nice places. Here's a two bed flat in Edinburgh for around £100k, how much cheaper do you think "basic shelter" should be?!?!

1) It is a prerequisite for a "nice place to live" which you seem to be saying applies all new build type estates?

2) Your 50 year old mate needs to return to his mum after a divorce but a 19 year old who has lost their hospitality job is going to tough it out and pay the rent come what may? LOL to that one!

3) No, my view on that was explained in a previous post.

4) Your definition of "in" Edinburgh is obviously different to mine, a flat like that needing renovation is worth about 50K IMO.

Crashy_Time

MobileSaver said:

Crashy_Time said:

1) I don`t think your sentiment towards new builds is representative of the general experience really, you may be incorrectly generalising something you see locally to the wider market?

2) it is likely that younger people who can do so will return to parents for a while rather than struggle to maintain a private flat on reduced hours or benefits

3) Liar Loans helped to inflate the market, historically low interest rates helped to keep the prices inflated but with less people able or willing to buy at those prices, none of this is a good outcome for ordinary hard working money savers. The best outcome IMO is cheap property that people can buy without going into debt for 35 years

1) I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make? Is a brand new tarmacked road another prerequisite for "basic shelter"?!?!

2) Is there any evidence it is "likely" younger people will return to their parents? Anecdotally I've never known anyone who would return back to their parents unless there was absolutely no other choice. I have heard of it happening to others but only very occasionally so I think your theory of a mass exodus back to parents is somewhat wide of the mark. (Actually my 50 year old mate did do just that a year or so ago but that was primarily a messy divorce situation.  )

3a) So basically you agree that every time you bang on about transactions being less than their decade-ago peak that actually means the property market is much healthier than it was ten years ago.

3b) There's plenty of cheap property about, the problem is that people don't want cheap basic shelter, they want nice homes in nice places. Here's a two bed flat in Edinburgh for around £100k, how much cheaper do you think "basic shelter" should be?!?!

Here is some less basic, but nonetheless not as "top end" as the seller would like to think, shelter from the same area you linked to, 100k price drop so far, much more needed IMO. Looks like the kite flying at the pricey end has infected even basic flats above shops in this area?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/86234701#/

AdrianC

MobileSaver said:

3b) There's plenty of cheap property about, the problem is that people don't want cheap basic shelter, they want nice homes in nice places. Here's a two bed flat in Edinburgh for around £100k, how much cheaper do you think "basic shelter" should be?!?!

Pah. Move out from the city a little bit, and you can get a three-bed house and forty grand change.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/105259301#/

Crashy_Time

With what the OP will be saving on their main purchase they could pick that up as a BTL?

MobileSaver

Crashy_Time said:

1) It is a prerequisite for a "nice place to live" which you seem to be saying applies all new build type estates?

4) Your definition of "in" Edinburgh is obviously different to mine,

You are trying to change the narrative. We were talking about "basic shelter" not "a nice place to live" or are you now admitting that your complaint is really that people can't buy somewhere nice to live on the cheap? A tarmacked road is not an essential necessity of basic shelter and you are just digging an even bigger hole by trying to infer it is.

Ah, gotcha, so in your opinion not only does basic shelter have to have all the mod cons of a brand new new-build, it also has to be four miles closer to the city centre?!?! At some point you need to own up to the fact that your definition of "basic shelter" is a sham and you are really talking about what I've said all along which is that people actually want a "nice home in a nice area."

AdrianC said:

MobileSaver said:

3b) There's plenty of cheap property about, the problem is that people don't want cheap basic shelter, they want nice homes in nice places.

Pah. Move out from the city a little bit, and you can get a three-bed house and forty grand change.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/105259301#/

Good find! £60,000! That's nearly half the price that I paid thirty years ago for my first two-bed home and it has central heating, double glazing, a garden and an extra bedroom, all of which mine didn't...

So there you have it Crashy, it appears that basic shelter is available on the cheap without people having to pay far too much, so it looks like your problem is solved doesn't it?

Crashy_Time

The good news is that if houses in Ratho are having to knock 100k off their asking prices the equity pipe from Edinburgh as new borrowers overpay for basic and nothing too special flats/houses must be drying up a bit, great news for sensible money savers everywhere IMO.

Crashy_Time

MobileSaver said:

Crashy_Time said:

1) It is a prerequisite for a "nice place to live" which you seem to be saying applies all new build type estates?

4) Your definition of "in" Edinburgh is obviously different to mine,

You are trying to change the narrative. We were talking about "basic shelter" not "a nice place to live" or are you now admitting that your complaint is really that people can't buy somewhere nice to live on the cheap? A tarmacked road is not an essential necessity of basic shelter and you are just digging an even bigger hole by trying to infer it is.

Ah, gotcha, so in your opinion not only does basic shelter have to have all the mod cons of a brand new new-build, it also has to be four miles closer to the city centre?!?! At some point you need to own up to the fact that your definition of "basic shelter" is a sham and you are really talking about what I've said all along which is that people actually want a "nice home in a nice area."

AdrianC said:

MobileSaver said:

3b) There's plenty of cheap property about, the problem is that people don't want cheap basic shelter, they want nice homes in nice places.

Pah. Move out from the city a little bit, and you can get a three-bed house and forty grand change.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/105259301#/

Good find! £60,000! That's nearly half the price that I paid thirty years ago for my first two-bed home and it has central heating, double glazing, a garden and an extra bedroom, all of which mine didn't...

So there you have it Crashy, it appears that basic shelter is available on the cheap without people having to pay far too much, so it looks like your problem is solved doesn't it?

Basic shelter is four walls and a roof, this describes most tenement flats and most new build estates IMO, nothing you have posted would be of any use to say a keyworker who needs to live close to work in Edinburgh, the Fife house is ex-council probably purchased for 9k or less in the early 90`s, worth about 30k now IMO, and the flat above the shop although in a "desirable" area if you like the sound of ducks and seeing large open spaces all the time is worth about 50k if you could rent it to someone who works in the shop downstairs or something. Again your examples are not really representative of what ordinary people need from a properly functioning property market IMO.

MobileSaver

Crashy_Time said:

Basic shelter is four walls and a roof,

Yes, I totally agree with you on this...

Crashy_Time said:

this describes most tenement flats and most new build estates IMO,

... but then you immediately repeat your frankly absurd claim that most new-builds are basic shelter. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it is never going to make it true.

No-one would dispute that most new builds can be small and are often identikit but this has nothing to do with basic shelter. Most (if not all) new-builds have the following features which are all above and beyond what is necessary for basic shelter:

• A brand new home never before lived in
• Newly decorated
  
• Low maintenance
• Central heating
• Double glazing
• Highly insulated
• Shiny new appliances
• Ten year warranty
• Often a garden even if it is small
• Often off-street or allocated parking
• Often the ability to choose finishing touches

None of those things are essential for basic shelter and so if you want them you have to pay for them which is one of the reasons prices are high. If you don't want those things and genuinely do just want basic shelter then as previously shown you can pick up a three-bed terrace for £60,000 and even you cannot pretend that that is unaffordable.

Crashy_Time said:

nothing you have posted would be of any use to say a keyworker who needs to live close to work in Edinburgh,

your examples are not really representative of what ordinary people need from a properly functioning property market

A keyworker can use public transport to get from Ratho Station to the closest hospital in just 30 minutes, obviously even less time if they have a car, so why is that property of no use to the keyworker and her family? Is your latest prerequisite for basic shelter that it must be within 30 minutes walking distance of your place of work?!?!

Yet again, we get to the real basis of your misguided anger and resentment towards those who have done well out of property - you appear to be unable to differentiate between what you/people want and need.

Ordinary people might want double glazing, central heating and shiny new appliances but they certainly don't need any of that in their quest for basic shelter. Until the penny drops on that simple truth you will keep coming to the same flawed reasonings as to why prices are about to crash and you'll sadly be paying off your landlord's mortgage instead of your own until the day you die.

Crashy_Time

MobileSaver said:

Crashy_Time said:

Basic shelter is four walls and a roof,

Yes, I totally agree with you on this...

Crashy_Time said:

this describes most tenement flats and most new build estates IMO,

... but then you immediately repeat your frankly absurd claim that most new-builds are basic shelter. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it is never going to make it true.

No-one would dispute that most new builds can be small and are often identikit but this has nothing to do with basic shelter. Most (if not all) new-builds have the following features which are all above and beyond what is necessary for basic shelter:

• A brand new home never before lived in
• Newly decorated
  
• Low maintenance
• Central heating
• Double glazing
• Highly insulated
• Shiny new appliances
• Ten year warranty
• Often a garden even if it is small
• Often off-street or allocated parking
• Often the ability to choose finishing touches

None of those things are essential for basic shelter and so if you want them you have to pay for them which is one of the reasons prices are high. If you don't want those things and genuinely do just want basic shelter then as previously shown you can pick up a three-bed terrace for £60,000 and even you cannot pretend that that is unaffordable.

Crashy_Time said:

nothing you have posted would be of any use to say a keyworker who needs to live close to work in Edinburgh,

your examples are not really representative of what ordinary people need from a properly functioning property market

A keyworker can use public transport to get from Ratho Station to the closest hospital in just 30 minutes, obviously even less time if they have a car, so why is that property of no use to the keyworker and her family? Is your latest prerequisite for basic shelter that it must be within 30 minutes walking distance of your place of work?!?!

Yet again, we get to the real basis of your misguided anger and resentment towards those who have done well out of property - you appear to be unable to differentiate between what you/people want and need.

Ordinary people might want double glazing, central heating and shiny new appliances but they certainly don't need any of that in their quest for basic shelter. Until the penny drops on that simple truth you will keep coming to the same flawed reasonings as to why prices are about to crash and you'll sadly be paying off your landlord's mortgage instead of your own until the day you die.

Very few recent buyers will "do well" out of property IMO, they are essentially being conned at these prices and no doubt will be concerned at the recent trend for "down valuations". I am talking about millions of keyworkers/FTB`ers/ Ordinary hardworking people who need property to drop to prices that don`t tie them to decades worth of debt for property with "features" that any renter can get! Finding a random nearly derelict flat above a shop in a well to do area miles out of Edinburgh or an ex-council house in the middle of Fife won`t solve the problem!