People who don’t take annual leave and prefer to work?

AskAsk

Stompa said:

When I worked I used to love it, and seldom took my full holiday entitlement. I'd just get bored at home!

it would be better to give everyone an allowance and you can spend it buying holidays or just have it paid to you.  some people also need the money and can not afford to go on holiday so if people are happy to work without taking holidays then they should be allowed to do so.  and those that do want to take holiday should also be allowed to do so.

where i used to work, one of the partner had nearly a year of holiday carried forward as he never took much holidays and he couldn't sell them.  we were thinking he would get a big payout if he left and asked for his holiday to be paid!  the guy was crazy as he was working over christmas.  even i would not want to do that.

Mickey666

Doshwaster said:

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

The problem is my co workers don’t take annual leave, they work and then the boss pays them at the end of the year. 

Paying for unused statutory holiday pay is not legal.

Can that really be true?
Statutory holidays are an employees right, but they are surely not mandatory?  If an employee freely chooses to work instead of taking their holiday entitlement, are you saying it's illegal for them to be paid for that work?  Sounds very odd to me.

Yep it is against the law to buy out statutory holidays.

There is a right to have the option to carry over up to 1.6 weeks.

Covid  legislation ammended that so more can be carried over.

All in the working time regulations that cover holiday pay.

There is a right to be paid for untaken holidays when leaving and there have been successfully cases back dating when the employee was refused holiday.

Well that sounds a lot like severely reducing employee rights to me.  If someone is willing to work they should be paid for their time.  Even the 48-hour-week directive gave employees the option to opt-out and work longer hours if they wished.

It seems right to protect employees from exploitative employers but wrong to deny employees their right to choose.  So much for freedom of choice!

But it's a bit academic really because how can such a thing be effectively policed in practice?  So, in full mutual agreement and employee works through their statutory holidays and the employers pays them a discretionary 'bonus'.  Nothing illegal about paying bonuses is there?

The problems with paying people for as many hours as they want to work are
1) Encourages people to work slowly in order to earn more.
2) Encourages people to work an unhealthy amount for more money
3) Makes it harder for the company to budget

1) Depends on how the job is managed.  If someone is not more productive when working more hours then what's the point of paying them.
2) Define 'unhealthy amount'.  We could argue that one all day with no conclusion.  The real point here is freedom of choice.
3)  On the contrary, it makes it easier to manage workloads if there is the option to pay employees to work through their holidays (if they wish to of course).

I'm not suggesting employees shouldn't have a statutory right to paid holidays.  I am suggesting that they should also have the CHOICE to work through those holidays if they want and be paid for that extra working time.  Freedom of choice.

Mickey666

getmore4less said:

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

The problem is my co workers don’t take annual leave, they work and then the boss pays them at the end of the year. 

Paying for unused statutory holiday pay is not legal.

Can that really be true?
Statutory holidays are an employees right, but they are surely not mandatory?  If an employee freely chooses to work instead of taking their holiday entitlement, are you saying it's illegal for them to be paid for that work?  Sounds very odd to me.

Yep it is against the law to buy out statutory holidays.

There is a right to have the option to carry over up to 1.6 weeks.

Covid  legislation ammended that so more can be carried over.

All in the working time regulations that cover holiday pay.

There is a right to be paid for untaken holidays when leaving and there have been successfully cases back dating when the employee was refused holiday.

Well that sounds a lot like severely reducing employee rights to me.  If someone is willing to work they should be paid for their time.  Even the 48-hour-week directive gave employees the option to opt-out and work longer hours if they wished.

It seems right to protect employees from exploitative employers but wrong to deny employees their right to choose.  So much for freedom of choice!

But it's a bit academic really because how can such a thing be effectively policed in practice?  So, in full mutual agreement and employee works through their statutory holidays and the employers pays them a discretionary 'bonus'.  Nothing illegal about paying bonuses is there?

The right is to paid time off,  not double time for working when you don't take holiday.

You still get paid for working you voluntary give up the right to paid time off.

providing incentives to not take holiday is exploitation.

Yes, and it's a good right to have.  But if an employee WISHES to work through their holiday time, why should they not be paid for that additional work?  

Few people are going to voluntarily give up their paid holiday time are they?  Much the same as few choose to work at weekend for no additional pay.  And why should they?

We all sell our time/skill/knowledge for money - so who is exploiting who?    Is the employer exploiting the employee by offering to pay them to work during their statutory holiday or is the employee exploiting the employer for getting them to effectively pay double time if they work during their statutory holidays?

The more rules and regulations we have, the less freedom of choice we have.

route101

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

For the single person who does not care to take holidays alone, leave is less useful.  One can go away with a friend, but that requires planning and expense.  It's only really viable to do that once a year or so.  
Otherwise one finds oneself in a bit of a bind: whilst one is on holiday, all one's friends are at work!  Taking time off to spend it alone, or sitting at home watching television, feels like a waste.  Taking the odd day off here and there is fine, sometimes necessary when it comes to appointments and so on, but a fortnight is hard to fill!  

I used to go on holiday myself ha, used to go with friends and weekends away too. I wanted something to look forward too and be in a different place. I would also have days off to do nothing too, but not all my leave, I do see it as a waste somewhat. 

[Deleted User]

Another thing that annoys me is that when you do take time off you can’t actually enjoy it because the money men as I like to call them are in working away and you know you’ll have a mountain of work to go in to. Same happens on a Monday morning, the same money men work all the hours god sends so they’re in over the weekend, takes half of Monday for me to catch up

[Deleted User]

Mickey666 said:

Deleted_User said:

Another thing that annoys me is that when you do take time off you can’t actually enjoy it because the money men as I like to call them are in working away and you know you’ll have a mountain of work to go in to. Same happens on a Monday morning, the same money men work all the hours god sends so they’re in over the weekend, takes half of Monday for me to catch up

Freedom of choice also requires a degree of tolerance from others. 
For all you know, 'the money men' might be annoyed that you don't also work all hours and the weekend.

It all boils down to the same old story and where your priorities lie. Work to live or live to work. 

Tokmon

AskAsk said:

Stompa said:

When I worked I used to love it, and seldom took my full holiday entitlement. I'd just get bored at home!

it would be better to give everyone an allowance and you can spend it buying holidays or just have it paid to you.  some people also need the money and can not afford to go on holiday so if people are happy to work without taking holidays then they should be allowed to do so.  and those that do want to take holiday should also be allowed to do so.

where i used to work, one of the partner had nearly a year of holiday carried forward as he never took much holidays and he couldn't sell them.  we were thinking he would get a big payout if he left and asked for his holiday to be paid!  the guy was crazy as he was working over christmas.  even i would not want to do that.

I'm generally against regulation when it limits people's choices in this sense, but actually i agree with the statutory minimum holidays because if we didn't have them we would end up like the US where lots of jobs have no holiday provision or only a week or so a year and i wouldn't want that. It's ok giving everyone an allowance they can choose to use but then employers could pressure employees into not taking the holiday or rejecting all their requests to be difficult.

I love my job and what i do and actually don't ever feel like i need a holiday but there is more to life than work and i can't imagine being in a position where work is all i have and there is nothing outside of work i enjoy doing too.

Manxman_in_exile

Mickey666 said:

Deleted_User said:

Another thing that annoys me is that when you do take time off you can’t actually enjoy it because the money men as I like to call them are in working away and you know you’ll have a mountain of work to go in to. Same happens on a Monday morning, the same money men work all the hours god sends so they’re in over the weekend, takes half of Monday for me to catch up

Freedom of choice also requires a degree of tolerance from others. 
For all you know, 'the money men' might be annoyed that you don't also work all hours and the weekend.

Are you seriously suggesting that it is the OP who is exhibiting intolerance here?

Do you really think the OP is being unreasonable in questioning why they should feel pressured (either explicitly or implicitly) by "the money men" and their employer into not taking the annual leave they are perfectly entitled to?

There is definitely some intolerance here but it certainly ain't coming from the OP.  If he can more easliy afford his lifestyle and has a richer life outside work than his colleagues, I don't see why he can't enjoy it without feeling unreasonably pressured to do the same as them.

If the freedom you advocate requires the "tolerance" you seem to be advocating, I'm not sure it's a freedom worth having...

wannabe_a_saver

Disappointing to see the assumption that living alone/being single means having no life outside work!!

Doshwaster

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

For the single person who does not care to take holidays alone, leave is less useful.  One can go away with a friend, but that requires planning and expense.  It's only really viable to do that once a year or so.  
Otherwise one finds oneself in a bit of a bind: whilst one is on holiday, all one's friends are at work!  Taking time off to spend it alone, or sitting at home watching television, feels like a waste.  Taking the odd day off here and there is fine, sometimes necessary when it comes to appointments and so on, but a fortnight is hard to fill!  

I'm single and going on holiday alone is one of my favourite things to do. You get to do exactly what you want, where you want and when you want but even if you do find your self sitting at home, you are getting paid to do so. I'd be perfectly happy to paid my full rate not to work.