People who don’t take annual leave and prefer to work?

[Deleted User]

TELLIT01 said:

There is a difference between people either loving the job or having nothing to do outside work and wanting to work all the time, and the situation the OP is in.  He is being criticised by the boss for wanting to take his annual leave entitlement and it seems the boss is doing his best to make it difficult to take leave.

Over the years I've had jobs I loved but I still wanted time away from them, and jobs I haven't enjoyed much and wanted time away from those even more.

Yes, I actually do enjoy my work but I look forward to my leave even more, I count down the days to it.

JustAnotherSaver

Deleted_User said:

JustAnotherSaver said:

route101 said:

strange to my co workers

Funny how everyone is different. I get asked after i take time off work where I've been. Many people take days at a time. To me that's a waste. As soon as you're off you're back in again and you don't get a suitable break from the place, so I take week blocks (usually).

And i'll say - nowhere really. Just stayed at home.

The look of confusion on their faces. What, so you didn't go anywhere?

No

Then what's the point in taking time off?

Well to not be here, basically.

I may go away on one of the weeks but generally just potter about the house doing jobs on the other weeks that i take that i can't be bothered doing at the end of a 60 hour week because i'm too knackered.

My setup will be foreign to many others. As i say, each to their own.

Oh yes that attitude is in our place too. You only take holidays if you’re going somewhere and what’s more it has to be a foreign holiday can’t be a caravan on the coast has to be abroad. 

Ah yes. Indeed.

And the latest one that's come about more and more since covid became a thing - I'm going away because I NEED to.

Oh really? Well aside from the fact that travelling abroad probably isn't the wisest of decisions and that's assuming you're able to get your money back if you cancel and how I would say waiting for a calmer time for such a holiday would be a better idea....

I need food and water and oxygen. I don't NEED an abroad holiday. I survive perfectly fine without one.
I would hate to have this expensive requirement to continue my surivial on this planet that others seem to have. 

Manxman_in_exile

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

The problem is my co workers don’t take annual leave, they work and then the boss pays them at the end of the year. 

Paying for unused statutory holiday pay is not legal.

Can that really be true?
Statutory holidays are an employees right, but they are surely not mandatory?  If an employee freely chooses to work instead of taking their holiday entitlement, are you saying it's illegal for them to be paid for that work?  Sounds very odd to me.

Yep it is against the law to buy out statutory holidays.

There is a right to have the option to carry over up to 1.6 weeks.

Covid  legislation ammended that so more can be carried over.

All in the working time regulations that cover holiday pay.

There is a right to be paid for untaken holidays when leaving and there have been successfully cases back dating when the employee was refused holiday.

Well that sounds a lot like severely reducing employee rights to me.  If someone is willing to work they should be paid for their time.  Even the 48-hour-week directive gave employees the option to opt-out and work longer hours if they wished.

It seems right to protect employees from exploitative employers but wrong to deny employees their right to choose.  So much for freedom of choice!

But it's a bit academic really because how can such a thing be effectively policed in practice?  So, in full mutual agreement and employee works through their statutory holidays and the employers pays them a discretionary 'bonus'.  Nothing illegal about paying bonuses is there?

Yeah - I wondered about that.  It was well known in our NHS trust that there were "the usual suspects" who would work the maximum overtime they could and would also maximise salary enhancements by always working Christmas and other Bank Holidays etc. 

I joined the NHS in the late 1980s (obviously long before WTD etc) and it was a well known "joke" that if you wanted to find a Patient Care Manager (our most senior nurse managers) you'd go into work on a Bank Holiday!  And when we became a trust in the 90s it was a requirement that our Annual Accounts listed the numbers of staff paid above a certain level.  Our newly arrived (from the private sector) Deputy Director of Finance couldn't understand why  - apart from the trust directors and our medical consultants - all our highest paid staff were nurses.

Doshwaster

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

The problem is my co workers don’t take annual leave, they work and then the boss pays them at the end of the year. 

Paying for unused statutory holiday pay is not legal.

Can that really be true?
Statutory holidays are an employees right, but they are surely not mandatory?  If an employee freely chooses to work instead of taking their holiday entitlement, are you saying it's illegal for them to be paid for that work?  Sounds very odd to me.

Yep it is against the law to buy out statutory holidays.

There is a right to have the option to carry over up to 1.6 weeks.

Covid  legislation ammended that so more can be carried over.

All in the working time regulations that cover holiday pay.

There is a right to be paid for untaken holidays when leaving and there have been successfully cases back dating when the employee was refused holiday.

Well that sounds a lot like severely reducing employee rights to me.  If someone is willing to work they should be paid for their time.  Even the 48-hour-week directive gave employees the option to opt-out and work longer hours if they wished.

It seems right to protect employees from exploitative employers but wrong to deny employees their right to choose.  So much for freedom of choice!

But it's a bit academic really because how can such a thing be effectively policed in practice?  So, in full mutual agreement and employee works through their statutory holidays and the employers pays them a discretionary 'bonus'.  Nothing illegal about paying bonuses is there?

The problems with paying people for as many hours as they want to work are
1) Encourages people to work slowly in order to earn more.
2) Encourages people to work an unhealthy amount for more money
3) Makes it harder for the company to budget

getmore4less

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

Mickey666 said:

getmore4less said:

The problem is my co workers don’t take annual leave, they work and then the boss pays them at the end of the year. 

Paying for unused statutory holiday pay is not legal.

Can that really be true?
Statutory holidays are an employees right, but they are surely not mandatory?  If an employee freely chooses to work instead of taking their holiday entitlement, are you saying it's illegal for them to be paid for that work?  Sounds very odd to me.

Yep it is against the law to buy out statutory holidays.

There is a right to have the option to carry over up to 1.6 weeks.

Covid  legislation ammended that so more can be carried over.

All in the working time regulations that cover holiday pay.

There is a right to be paid for untaken holidays when leaving and there have been successfully cases back dating when the employee was refused holiday.

Well that sounds a lot like severely reducing employee rights to me.  If someone is willing to work they should be paid for their time.  Even the 48-hour-week directive gave employees the option to opt-out and work longer hours if they wished.

It seems right to protect employees from exploitative employers but wrong to deny employees their right to choose.  So much for freedom of choice!

But it's a bit academic really because how can such a thing be effectively policed in practice?  So, in full mutual agreement and employee works through their statutory holidays and the employers pays them a discretionary 'bonus'.  Nothing illegal about paying bonuses is there?

The right is to paid time off,  not double time for working when you don't take holiday.

You still get paid for working you voluntary give up the right to paid time off.

providing incentives to not take holiday is exploitation.

justworriedabit

If you work, you are entitled to your hols,
Reading some of the posts here is worrying,  ie the attitude of some that said they were managers.
I was a manager, yes too it on for more money but the head of department left  after that and my new roles was
not what it was before, EG, the people at the top listened to me if I said they expected too much from my section.
Anyway, I decided to resign and almost everyone that I directly managed and many others di not want me to leave because they saw me a good manager who was not two faced, kept promises, flexible and very caring.
I taught myself long time ago not to make mistakes, remain humble and learn from others mistakes.

Your hols/rights. For sure the company/org needs to operate and there will be times you can't get you weeks, days leave etc specially at short notice but the bottom line, don't be forced into taking your hols. A good org/co will already have staggered A/L over 12 months as opposed to the common dates, Jan & April. Try to used most of you leave 4/6 weeks before you get new leave. Try to avoid last min request for A/L leave those for when you really need them. Watch how others get their leave and if you are being treated differently and not getting the flexibility other do, ask and if not happy, go your union, speak to a close co-worker and pick their brains and then ask why to your supv/manager and then go to HR if required.

Don't ever accept being told you need a rest and you must take A/L - you either take sick leave if not well or flexi/a/l for leave.
Try not to fall out with your supv/manager unless you really have to and if you are unhappy, speak to a close confidant and then the supv/manager etc it often resolved but if not union/HR

As a manager I treated others like the way I'd expected to be treated. If I felt anyone was out of order/concerns/etc, I would never pull them up in front of others - many said to me that I could be trusted even those that disliked me initially. 
Yes, a manager I had a duty towards my org/co but I also had a duty to my staff and others and on top of that I had a duty to treat all as humans and beware that they may have some issues that is making them look unwell, run down, not doing the good job they did before and that is the time to have a friendly off the record, caring chat with them and then decide the next action.

When I was younger, yes, I was easily led and I was anti management and in hindsight I was wrong but I am a quick learner as by the age of 20 or so people often stated I was mature for my age. I was telling my parents who I pulled up people for talking down to others at work. They were supportive but ticked me of and told me to behave like I did at home and the way I was brought up and people could be challenged without having to behave like the manger/etc I was challenging.

If you feel you are being picked on by a manger, do as above even phone ACAS they can give you good tips how to avoid conflict and challenge those that lack interpersonal skills. Never take it lying down from a supv/manager, chose your time and place, arm yourself with the facts/etc and listen more than what you say and you don't have to give answers there and then if you are unsure.
So don't be forced into taking hols but be aware of your other co-workers and plan and use your hols by the next lot and iff possible, carry over a few if you are taking 3/4 weeks long hols out of the UK.

FYI, a bad manager can make the lives of their staff miserable, especially a bully and I am proud of the fact that I did manage to get one manager removed for our section and then they left. I thought initially I was the only one being bullied until I made a couple of good friends and they were being tread awfully as well the manager was covert i their practices of this but together, it took doing and we were initially fobbed off, the manger was moved.
A good manger is hard to come by and if you have on, you are lucky and please do tell them they are good/nice as it helps. A good manger will listen, care and do the right thing if you too are being reasonable.

Ditzy_Mitzy

For the single person who does not care to take holidays alone, leave is less useful.  One can go away with a friend, but that requires planning and expense.  It's only really viable to do that once a year or so.  
Otherwise one finds oneself in a bit of a bind: whilst one is on holiday, all one's friends are at work!  Taking time off to spend it alone, or sitting at home watching television, feels like a waste.  Taking the odd day off here and there is fine, sometimes necessary when it comes to appointments and so on, but a fortnight is hard to fill!  

NaughtiusMaximus

JustAnotherSaver said:

route101 said:

strange to my co workers

Funny how everyone is different. I get asked after i take time off work where I've been. Many people take days at a time. To me that's a waste. As soon as you're off you're back in again and you don't get a suitable break from the place, so I take week blocks (usually).

And i'll say - nowhere really. Just stayed at home.

The look of confusion on their faces. What, so you didn't go anywhere?

No

Then what's the point in taking time off?

Well to not be here, basically.

I may go away on one of the weeks but generally just potter about the house doing jobs on the other weeks that i take that i can't be bothered doing at the end of a 60 hour week because i'm too knackered.

My setup will be foreign to many others. As i say, each to their own.

I think we've found one of your co-workers    :

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

For the single person who does not care to take holidays alone, leave is less useful.  One can go away with a friend, but that requires planning and expense.  It's only really viable to do that once a year or so.  
Otherwise one finds oneself in a bit of a bind: whilst one is on holiday, all one's friends are at work!  Taking time off to spend it alone, or sitting at home watching television, feels like a waste.  Taking the odd day off here and there is fine, sometimes necessary when it comes to appointments and so on, but a fortnight is hard to fill!  

Torry_Quine

When I first started working  I took holidays without anyone to go anywhere with. It wasn't particularly enjoyable spending holiday time at home but it never crossed my mind that I wouldn't take time off.

Stompa

When I worked I used to love it, and seldom took my full holiday entitlement. I'd just get bored at home!