HELP!! £400 pcm Electricity!

ChuggerChugger

Gerry1 said:

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

Which type of energy monitor did you buy? There are two types. One senses the current in the cable using a clip-on sensor, the other counts the impluses recorded by the flashing light on the meter

I trust you have the clip-on type, otherwise the results will be meaningless.  If the meter has gone haywire, then the energy monitor will get garbage in and will give garbage out.

It's essential to use the clip-on type if you want to check that the meter is accurate.  However, quite how that would work with 3-phase I'm not sure !

With regard to accuracy, the bill is based off the meter readings so if the readings and the monitor align in their reading it will surely be an accurate reflection of what the bill is likely to be.

Yup, a wonky meter will say that £5's worth of electricity costs £20 and the energy monitor will say that it's all fine and dandy !

It may help you to discover that you're funding all the street lights or your next door neighbours, but for most people with a single phase meter worried about high bills they'd be better off with a current sensor because the measurement will be independent of a meter that's dodgy.

So if I keep a record of what the meter says, the monitor says, compare them to the stated consumption on the bill and then work out what the bill should be based on the tariff, that should give me an indication of whether the meter is faulty or not, shouldn't it? Also if sorting the heating resolves the issue of massive consumption, i'm guessing that would be a good sign that the issue is with the heating and not the meter. If these actions don't resolve the issue then I guess is the time to get E.ON out to test for a faulty meter.

Gerry1

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

Which type of energy monitor did you buy? There are two types. One senses the current in the cable using a clip-on sensor, the other counts the impluses recorded by the flashing light on the meter

I trust you have the clip-on type, otherwise the results will be meaningless.  If the meter has gone haywire, then the energy monitor will get garbage in and will give garbage out.

It's essential to use the clip-on type if you want to check that the meter is accurate.  However, quite how that would work with 3-phase I'm not sure !

With regard to accuracy, the bill is based off the meter readings so if the readings and the monitor align in their reading it will surely be an accurate reflection of what the bill is likely to be.

Yup, a wonky meter will say that £5's worth of electricity costs £20 and the energy monitor will say that it's all fine and dandy !

It may help you to discover that you're funding all the street lights or your next door neighbours, but for most people with a single phase meter worried about high bills they'd be better off with a current sensor because the measurement will be independent of a meter that's dodgy.

So if I keep a record of what the meter says, the monitor says, compare them to the stated consumption on the bill and then work out what the bill should be based on the tariff, that should give me an indication of whether the meter is faulty or not, shouldn't it?

A wonky lying meter flashes like there's no tomorrow and tells the energy monitor a pack of lies, the energy monitor happily believes the silly flashes hook line and sinker, and the lies produce the silly white on black kWh numbers which you send to the electricity company who print silly ££ readings on the bill.  You're still  none the wiser because there's been no independent check: it's like asking the guy who phones you about a problem with your computer whether he's really from Microsoft.

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

Which type of energy monitor did you buy? There are two types. One senses the current in the cable using a clip-on sensor, the other counts the impluses recorded by the flashing light on the meter

I trust you have the clip-on type, otherwise the results will be meaningless.  If the meter has gone haywire, then the energy monitor will get garbage in and will give garbage out.

It's essential to use the clip-on type if you want to check that the meter is accurate.  However, quite how that would work with 3-phase I'm not sure !

With regard to accuracy, the bill is based off the meter readings so if the readings and the monitor align in their reading it will surely be an accurate reflection of what the bill is likely to be.

Yup, a wonky meter will say that £5's worth of electricity costs £20 and the energy monitor will say that it's all fine and dandy !

It may help you to discover that you're funding all the street lights or your next door neighbours, but for most people with a single phase meter worried about high bills they'd be better off with a current sensor because the measurement will be independent of a meter that's dodgy.

Also if sorting the heating resolves the issue of massive consumption, i'm guessing that would be a good sign that the issue is with the heating and not the meter. If these actions don't resolve the issue then I guess is the time to get E.ON out to test for a faulty meter.

Remind me, did you do the meter sanity tests?  Switching off the heating circuit will be fine until winter returns, but if the excessive consumption is more than the NSHs can consume then you still need to find what else is on that circuit.

Check what E.On will charge for a meter test.  If you don't need 3-phase it might be better to change to a conventional single phase supply with a singe phase meter and keep everything simple.

bagand96

If the storage heaters were not getting warm after they were turned off at the wall.... and now the usage is significantly less after that circuit has had its fuse removed, it surely suggests something else is on that circuit and was using electricity?

The storage heaters would have got warm if they were using the electricity?!

ChuggerChugger

Gerry1 said:

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

Which type of energy monitor did you buy? There are two types. One senses the current in the cable using a clip-on sensor, the other counts the impluses recorded by the flashing light on the meter

I trust you have the clip-on type, otherwise the results will be meaningless.  If the meter has gone haywire, then the energy monitor will get garbage in and will give garbage out.

It's essential to use the clip-on type if you want to check that the meter is accurate.  However, quite how that would work with 3-phase I'm not sure !

With regard to accuracy, the bill is based off the meter readings so if the readings and the monitor align in their reading it will surely be an accurate reflection of what the bill is likely to be.

Yup, a wonky meter will say that £5's worth of electricity costs £20 and the energy monitor will say that it's all fine and dandy !

It may help you to discover that you're funding all the street lights or your next door neighbours, but for most people with a single phase meter worried about high bills they'd be better off with a current sensor because the measurement will be independent of a meter that's dodgy.

So if I keep a record of what the meter says, the monitor says, compare them to the stated consumption on the bill and then work out what the bill should be based on the tariff, that should give me an indication of whether the meter is faulty or not, shouldn't it?

A wonky lying meter flashes like there's no tomorrow and tells the energy monitor a pack of lies, the energy monitor happily believes the silly flashes hook line and sinker, and the lies produce the silly white on black kWh numbers which you send to the electricity company who print silly ££ readings on the bill.  You're still  none the wiser because there's been no independent check: it's like asking the guy who phones you about a problem with your computer whether he's really from Microsoft.

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

ChuggerChugger said:

Gerry1 said:

Which type of energy monitor did you buy? There are two types. One senses the current in the cable using a clip-on sensor, the other counts the impluses recorded by the flashing light on the meter

I trust you have the clip-on type, otherwise the results will be meaningless.  If the meter has gone haywire, then the energy monitor will get garbage in and will give garbage out.

It's essential to use the clip-on type if you want to check that the meter is accurate.  However, quite how that would work with 3-phase I'm not sure !

With regard to accuracy, the bill is based off the meter readings so if the readings and the monitor align in their reading it will surely be an accurate reflection of what the bill is likely to be.

Yup, a wonky meter will say that £5's worth of electricity costs £20 and the energy monitor will say that it's all fine and dandy !

It may help you to discover that you're funding all the street lights or your next door neighbours, but for most people with a single phase meter worried about high bills they'd be better off with a current sensor because the measurement will be independent of a meter that's dodgy.

Also if sorting the heating resolves the issue of massive consumption, i'm guessing that would be a good sign that the issue is with the heating and not the meter. If these actions don't resolve the issue then I guess is the time to get E.ON out to test for a faulty meter.

Remind me, did you do the meter sanity tests?  Switching off the heating circuit will be fine until winter returns, but if the excessive consumption is more than the NSHs can consume then you still need to find what else is on that circuit.

Check what E.On will charge for a meter test.  If you don't need 3-phase it might be better to change to a conventional single phase supply with a singe phase meter and keep everything simple.

I did the meter sanity check. E.ON charge £103 for the check. In your initial advice you told me to cancel the faulty meter check that I had arranged with E.ON. The electrician I got out advised me that staying on 3 phase probably wasn't a bad idea given the fact the house is all electric.

ChuggerChugger

bagand96 said:

If the storage heaters were not getting warm after they were turned off at the wall.... and now the usage is significantly less after that circuit has had its fuse removed, it surely suggests something else is on that circuit and was using electricity?

The storage heaters would have got warm if they were using the electricity?!

I guess it may mean that but at present the house seems to be running ok and the electrician will presumably check it out when he comes to carry out the work.

These storage heaters have input and output settings. Is it possible that with input still on and the output set to zero it would still be using electricity without getting noticeably hot? 

Reed_Richards

ChuggerChugger said:

Is it possible that with input still on and the output set to zero it would still be using electricity without getting noticeably hot? 

Absolutely not.  If your storage heater was not hot, nor glowing so brightly that you could not look at it, nor driving off down the street then it was not using any significant quantity of electricity.

brianposter

You seem to have overlooked the comments about the validity of your electricians advice.

ChuggerChugger

brianposter said:

You seem to have overlooked the comments about the validity of your electricians advice.

With regard to the panel heaters? If that is what you mean then I haven't. I am getting the electrician to 'tidy-up' the plethora of fuse boards and whatnot that have been added over the years but I am holding off on replacing the storage heaters with the panels. 

I am making enquiries about getting gas brought into the house (it seems the neighbours have it so should be possible). If that proves to be too greater cost, I will also look at simply upgrading the existing storage heaters to a newer, more efficient model.

ChuggerChugger

Reed_Richards said:

ChuggerChugger said:

Is it possible that with input still on and the output set to zero it would still be using electricity without getting noticeably hot? 

Absolutely not.  If your storage heater was not hot, nor glowing so brightly that you could not look at it, nor driving off down the street then it was not using any significant quantity of electricity.

I guess that means that if switching off that circuit does prove to be key in lowering consumption to a significant degree, then I shall have to instruct someone to investigate what other appliances are on that circuit.

Gerry1

ChuggerChugger said:

I am making enquiries about getting gas brought into the house (it seems the neighbours have it so should be possible). If that proves to be too greater cost, I will also look at simply upgrading the existing storage heaters to a newer, more efficient model.

Go for gas, end of.  If the neighbours have it, then it's a no brainer.  It'll soon pay for itself with lower bills and it will add value to the house.  Forget about adding or replacing any electric heating, just dash for gas PDQ.

ChuggerChugger said:

I will also look at simply upgrading the existing storage heaters to a newer, more efficient model.

It's a popular misconception but it's a bit of a quicksand.  All electric heaters are 100% efficient (X kWh of electricity in gives X kWh of heat out), although losses in the generating and transmission processes mean you only get about 40% of the energy used by the power station, but I digress.

A shiny new NSH will look nicer than a battered old one, but the only efficiency savings will be that modern High Heat Retention ones don't waste quite so much heat at times when it's not needed, e.g. overnight and when you're out during the day.  However, they're not cheap and the payback period may be lengthy, especially if you're at home during the day.  So think twice because the savings may be much lower than you had hoped for.

ChuggerChugger said:

I guess that means that if switching off that circuit does prove to be key in lowering consumption to a significant degree, then I shall have to instruct someone to investigate what other appliances are on that circuit.

Before you switched off the E7 circuits at the consumer unit, are you sure absolutely all the underfloor heating was really switched off ?  If parts of it were still on that might explain the high overnight usage.  All that unexplained energy must be going somewhere.  It might not have been so obvious if it was just taking the chill off, and with the recent warmer weather you might not have noticed the difference when it finally went off.