Help! Evicting a nightmare lodger!

Type_45

wannabe_a_saver said:

Type_45 said:

tasticz said:

sounds like a HMO also to me and the keeping 1 room and staying once a week and checking in every day is like a thin line to between main residence and HMO... sounds though its going to be messy

It's the landlords main residence. Their vote is registered at that address, they pay all the bills. Covid meant that they bubbled with their partner.

It doesn't matter what paperwork someone keeps at that address to try and make it look as though they live there,  what matters is if they actually live there or not, and it sounds like he doesn't.

Being in a support bubble doesn't mean moving in with that person.  I'm in a support bubble with my mum, thank god it doesn't for both our sakes! 

I hear what you're saying. But where is the line drawn then? How many nights a week does a landlord have to live there for it to be his "main residence"?

And how does anyone know (including the lodgers!) how many nights the landlord is in his bedroom? 

The lodgers may say "well, he never cooks in the kitchen or watches the TV in the living room"... But what does that prove?

How does the lodger prove the landlord doesn't live there if the landlord says he does? 

Type_45

Poster_586329 said:

The point about lodgers not being allowed locks on their doors is mentioned here:

https://landlordlawblog.co.uk/2018/03/01/resident-landlord-rights-lodger-tenant/

And

https://m.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-landlords/whats-the-difference-between-a-tenant-and-a-lodger/

Any government website that says otherwise must just have been poorly drafted!

I do think if this woman phones Shelter and describes her situation, they'll probably tell her that she has a tenancy. And that the resident landlord is actually to all intents and purposes living elsewhere.

However practically speaking (and especially if she has friends/connections in the area), you may hopefully find that, given reasonable time to find new accomodation, before long she'll accept it hasn't worked out and move somewhere else. 

Lodgers normally have a notice period of one rental period.  I think a month is fine, but if the cannabis smoking continues and disturbs others then might push for less.  

I'd really be very surprised if it ever made it to court / become a matter for lawyers.

Maybe a financial inducement will help?  For instance she might not have the funds to put down for another place.

Thank you for your post. Much appreciated. 👍

I would say, though, that neither of your linked articles really said that lodgers can't have locks on their doors (whereas tenants can)?

Perhaps someone else would like to comment on this?

theoretica

Sounds like your relative needs to get back to 3 lodgers as fast as possible - perhaps offering to refund her rent depending on how soon she leaves?

zagubov

Landlords of lodgers need to have access to their rooms for cleaning etc.
Letting the lodgers have a chain is okay for their privacy when they're at home. Having a lock might be okay if the landlord also has a key. But if the lodger changes the lock, that needs to be dealt with immediately.

AdrianC

Type_45 said:

On her first night she was reported to the landlord
...
The landlord confronted her by text

This, alone, strongly suggests that the landlord is not in residence at the property.

wannabe_a_saver

Type_45 said:r

wannabe_a_saver said:

Type_45 said:

tasticz said:

sounds like a HMO also to me and the keeping 1 room and staying once a week and checking in every day is like a thin line to between main residence and HMO... sounds though its going to be messy

It's the landlords main residence. Their vote is registered at that address, they pay all the bills. Covid meant that they bubbled with their partner.

It doesn't matter what paperwork someone keeps at that address to try and make it look as though they live there,  what matters is if they actually live there or not, and it sounds like he doesn't.

Being in a support bubble doesn't mean moving in with that person.  I'm in a support bubble with my mum, thank god it doesn't for both our sakes! 

I hear what you're saying. But where is the line drawn then? How many nights a week does a landlord have to live there for it to be his "main residence"?

More than he spends at his girlfriend’s house. 

Type_45

zagubov said:

Landlords of lodgers need to have access to their rooms for cleaning etc.
Letting the lodgers have a chain is okay for their privacy when they're at home. Having a lock might be okay if the landlord also has a key. But if the lodger changes the lock, that needs to be dealt with immediately.

Absolutely. The lock can't be changed.

Type_45

wannabe_a_saver said:

Type_45 said:r

wannabe_a_saver said:

Type_45 said:

tasticz said:

sounds like a HMO also to me and the keeping 1 room and staying once a week and checking in every day is like a thin line to between main residence and HMO... sounds though its going to be messy

It's the landlords main residence. Their vote is registered at that address, they pay all the bills. Covid meant that they bubbled with their partner.

It doesn't matter what paperwork someone keeps at that address to try and make it look as though they live there,  what matters is if they actually live there or not, and it sounds like he doesn't.

Being in a support bubble doesn't mean moving in with that person.  I'm in a support bubble with my mum, thank god it doesn't for both our sakes! 

I hear what you're saying. But where is the line drawn then? How many nights a week does a landlord have to live there for it to be his "main residence"?

More than he spends at his girlfriend’s house. 

Fair enough. But is that the law/rules? And how is it proven? 

If the landlord says to the Lodger's solicitor that he spends 4 nights a week at the House, how can they disprove it?

Type_45

AdrianC said:

Type_45 said:

On her first night she was reported to the landlord
...
The landlord confronted her by text

This, alone, strongly suggests that the landlord is not in residence at the property.

It suggests split residency. 

It doesn't say that the landlord doesn't live there.

elsien

Type_45 said:

Poster_586329 said:

The point about lodgers not being allowed locks on their doors is mentioned here:

https://landlordlawblog.co.uk/2018/03/01/resident-landlord-rights-lodger-tenant/

And

https://m.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-landlords/whats-the-difference-between-a-tenant-and-a-lodger/

Any government website that says otherwise must just have been poorly drafted!

I do think if this woman phones Shelter and describes her situation, they'll probably tell her that she has a tenancy. And that the resident landlord is actually to all intents and purposes living elsewhere.

However practically speaking (and especially if she has friends/connections in the area), you may hopefully find that, given reasonable time to find new accomodation, before long she'll accept it hasn't worked out and move somewhere else. 

Lodgers normally have a notice period of one rental period.  I think a month is fine, but if the cannabis smoking continues and disturbs others then might push for less.  

I'd really be very surprised if it ever made it to court / become a matter for lawyers.

Maybe a financial inducement will help?  For instance she might not have the funds to put down for another place.

Thank you for your post. Much appreciated. 👍

I would say, though, that neither of your linked articles really said that lodgers can't have locks on their doors (whereas tenants can)?

Perhaps someone else would like to comment on this?

To make sure that someone stays a lodger, rather than gaining additional rights, the landlord needs to ensure that they cannot be excluded from any space the lodger occupies. So if the lodger  has a lock on their door which can be used to lock the room while the lodger is not in there the landlord needs to ensure they also have a key and any agreement says they have the right to enter without permission. Otherwise they risk turning the lodger into a tenant. 

Your family member would appear to have effectively moved out. Calling in every day doesn’t equate to living there, to the impartial observer. Especially if that means behaviour had to be “confronted by text.” If you’re living in the same house as someone, it would be normal to have a direct conversation about any issues. 

Another link which has some dos and dont’s.
https://www.lodgerguide.co.uk/what-is-a-lodger/