Help! Evicting a nightmare lodger!

macman

Type_45 said:

macman said:

Type_45 said:

deannagone said:

I strongly feel that in dealing with the tenant, don't make the situation worse than it is.  She is co-operating right now, and obviously is vulnerable even if behaviour can be difficult to manage at times.  Rather than treating her as some sort of 'horror tenant' just operate in the view that this arrangement wasn't a good fit for either the LL nor the tenant.   As I am sure is realised, there were things on both sides that led to this.

Absolutely. It's the landlord's fault for not vetting the tenant. He made a mistake. He was too eager to fill the room and get rent money. He is normally very careful and has had fantastic lodgers. This was his error. Lesson learned.

I'm struggling to equate 'very careful' with someone who issues his vague lodger/tenancy agreements by text message? It's hardly a professional way to manage a property.

I agree. The landlord thought text was just as good as a signed agreement as that's what he had heard. He's since spoken to a solicitor who says that a signature is required. The landlord does have a written lodger agreement, and the solicitor is also going to look at it. 

And how did he think that an unsigned contract would be binding on the recipient? You might get away with it for a lodger, but as a tenancy agreement it would never be enforceable. 
Best not to run a property business based on what someone said down the pub...

Type_45

macman said:

Type_45 said:

macman said:

Type_45 said:

deannagone said:

I strongly feel that in dealing with the tenant, don't make the situation worse than it is.  She is co-operating right now, and obviously is vulnerable even if behaviour can be difficult to manage at times.  Rather than treating her as some sort of 'horror tenant' just operate in the view that this arrangement wasn't a good fit for either the LL nor the tenant.   As I am sure is realised, there were things on both sides that led to this.

Absolutely. It's the landlord's fault for not vetting the tenant. He made a mistake. He was too eager to fill the room and get rent money. He is normally very careful and has had fantastic lodgers. This was his error. Lesson learned.

I'm struggling to equate 'very careful' with someone who issues his vague lodger/tenancy agreements by text message? It's hardly a professional way to manage a property.

I agree. The landlord thought text was just as good as a signed agreement as that's what he had heard. He's since spoken to a solicitor who says that a signature is required. The landlord does have a written lodger agreement, and the solicitor is also going to look at it. 

And how did he think that an unsigned contract would be binding on the recipient? You might get away with it for a lodger, but as a tenancy agreement it would never be enforceable. 
Best not to run a property business based on what someone said down the pub...

This is actually a common thought: that a text message is a binding agreement as it states intent. I'm pretty sure I've seen Judge Judy (might have been Judge Rinder) say this on TV too.

But as you, and the landlord's solicitor, have now said - signatures are required.

Type_45

Regarding the responsibilities of a HMO landlord with 3 lodgers (who doesn't need an HMO licence, am I right in saying that the landlord's obligations and responsibilities are the following:

- Proper fire safety measures are in place, including working smoke alarms

- Annual gas safety checks are carried out

- electrics are checked every 5 years

- The property is not overcrowded

there are enough cooking and bathroom facilities for the number living there

- Communal areas and shared facilities are clean and in good repair

- There are enough rubbish bins/bags"


Does an unlicensed landlord with 3 lodgers need to do anything else? 

Type_45

Couple of questions:

- has anyone had to apply for Planning Permission and have any info/advice as to the process? 

- other than working smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, what fire equipment is needed in a 3 storey HMO with 4 residents (landlord and 3 lodgers)? 

wannabe_a_saver

You are very invested in your friend's poorly thought through business venture! 

juliedee4663

wannabe_a_saver said:

You are very invested in your friend's poorly thought through business venture! 

I'm beginning to wonder if they are indeed two different people!

HampshireH

Surely this landlord has already made his home safe & compliant for those he has paying rent. The word careful really does seem over stretched in this thread if not.

https://www.firesafe.org.uk/houses-in-multiple-occupation/

This is an easy to read but quite detailed blog https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/hmo-landlord-legal-requirements-regulations/#hmo-fire

[Deleted User]

Type_45 said:

Couple of questions:

- has anyone had to apply for Planning Permission and have any info/advice as to the process? 

- other than working smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, what fire equipment is needed in a 3 storey HMO with 4 residents (landlord and 3 lodgers)? 

Bingo. You should have a professional conduct a fire risk assessment. It is an HMO just not a licensable HMO. 

See the lacors guidance.
Probably an interlinked smoke alarm system, fire blanket in kitchen, possibly emergency lights, door closers on most rooms, doors which are fire resisting.

Type_45

[Deleted User] said:

Type_45 said:

Couple of questions:

- has anyone had to apply for Planning Permission and have any info/advice as to the process? 

- other than working smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, what fire equipment is needed in a 3 storey HMO with 4 residents (landlord and 3 lodgers)? 

Bingo. You should have a professional conduct a fire risk assessment. It is an HMO just not a licensable HMO. 

See the lacors guidance.
Probably an interlinked smoke alarm system, fire blanket in kitchen, possibly emergency lights, door closers on most rooms, doors which are fire resisting.

A professional fire risk assessment is a great idea. It's a modern house with working fire alarms on all floors, CM alarm on ground floor, extinguisher and fire blanket in kitchen. But I'm sure it can be improved.
Houses in the area have top opening windows on all floors. Even the top floor of 3 storey townhouses. It's a terrible window choice. A fully openable window with a rope ladder would be my preferred way of getting out if I lived in such a house. 

Type_45

HampshireH said:

Surely this landlord has already made his home safe & compliant for those he has paying rent. The word careful really does seem over stretched in this thread if not.

https://www.firesafe.org.uk/houses-in-multiple-occupation/

This is an easy to read but quite detailed blog https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/hmo-landlord-legal-requirements-regulations/#hmo-fire

Thank you for the links  👍