Electric company refusing to replace broken electric meter.

Gerry1

niktheguru said:

there is a huge percentage of the population on estimated bills and with massive credits and debits, which smart metering solves.

Even with universal smart meters, there would still be a huge percentage of the population with massive credits and debits.  Most companies only offer Fixed Direct Debit and AFAIK that will remain the case, so very little will change.

You need Variable Direct Debit to avoid building up credit or debit.  If Ofgem were any good they'd mandate that companies should offer both, and make VDD the default.  Much easier to understand, and far better at alerting consumers to high usage.  It also stops the 'Symbio Shenanigans' where companies unjustifiably increase FDDs to boost their cashflow even though it can cause problems for customers.

I have a conventional gas meter, it's a doddle to read it and I'm on VDD.  Sending my existing meter to landfill and replacing it with an expensive smart meter lasting only as long as its disposable battery wouldn't benefit me or the planet.

Of course, VDD wouldn't suit everyone especially the JAMs on tight budgets, so FDD still needs to be available as an option.

niktheguru said:

When I meant "charge" people if they want a replacement standard meter I meant for people who have broken or end of life meters. If the government have set targets for smart meter installation, what incentive is there for providers to install a standard.

I'd expect a bonus of £100 if an end of life meter were replaced by a cheap standard meter !  The company will save the cost of supplying an expensive smart meter, so they'd still be better off.  Their ongoing costs would remain unchanged because I do their meter reading work for them free of charge, and they still have to make regular safety checks regardless of the meter type.

unforeseen

TBH I'm surprised there's not yet a market for devices to jam the signals to/from a smart meter to force it to work purely as a dumb meter. 

matelodave

Could be because it would probably also affect your mobile phone signal and those in the vicinity of your jammer. 

imeach

brewerdave said:

 Apparently meter readers were suppllied with spare batteries to fit in the past - but they are an (almost) extinct species !!

Still allegedly 2000 meter readers at MDS and God knows how many at Lowri Beck, then a few other smaller ones

The only batteries I can remember meter readers replacing were on the old prepayment meters but I think that has stopped now

MikeE67

Retired_at_55 said:

I hope it is O.K. and appropriate, to post this here but, if not, I apologize.  I  am supplied by Octopus for both gas and electricity and I have always enjoyed good service  and 'fair' tariffs from them.  There is no pressure to have smart meters installed, although the option to have them installed is available from Octopus.   I prefer to keep my 'standard' gas and electricity  meters for as long as possible although, if smart meters become essential, I'll accept them.

My main reason for not wanting any smart meter at this time is largely because of the experience of a neighbour - not supplied by Octopus.  With no warning his gas supply was cut off - it just stopped working.  After a struggle he learned that there was a problem with his smart gas meter - the battery had failed ? although not 'old' it had become faulty.  His family had to suffer the inconvenience of no central heating or hot water until the problem was identified and remedied.  (I know there can sometimes be power cuts at no notice - but they are not battery related.)  I would be able to boil water on my gas cooker if no electricity temporarily during a power cut.

As a result I have decided not to ask for gas or electricity smart meters until they become essential then I would have both gas and electric smart meters installed.  I feel as if I have control by reading both my gas (M3) and my electricity standard meters and submitting readings to Octopus regularly every month.  I'd prefer not to rely on a battery which can, even if rarely, from my neighbour's first hand experience, fail with no advance warning?  I am not opposed to smart meters but think my present 'standard' system is more reliable and better for me.  Smart meter technology is likely to improve in time but, I think, still has some way to go.  If, in time, by not having smart meters, the cost of my gas and electricity was going to increase significantly by I would reconsider.   Does my decision make sense?
Thank you.
Retired_at_55 

I have read that these batteries are supposed to last at least 10 years and just before going completely flat ( therefore shutting off your gas) an alarm sounds and also the meter sends a message back to your energy supplier informing them that a battery replacement is due.

I am with Octopus Energy and I have faith that in the event of this happening to me, they would sort out the problem as they actually do have good customer service !

[Deleted User]

In February, there were nearly 21M smart meters connected to the DCC. A total of 359,870,041 messages passed through the hub. I am not sure that I would rely on any supplier to react to a gas battery alert. 

Fortunately, .....

If the Remaining Battery Capacity(4.5.4.16) falls below ten percent of the nominal Battery capacity GSME shall be capable of:

i. generating an entry to that effect in the Event Log(4.5.4.8); and

ii. sending an Alert to that effect via its HAN Interface.

A good reason to keep the IHD plugged in.

Poppy9

Before COVID I had to have a new electric meter as old one had stopped working .  No offer of smart meter.  They also replaced my gas meter a few months before just because they had a program.  No offer of smart meter but last week a man rang me to arrange appointment to install smart meters.  Avro energy had given him my number .  I declined.  He also asked me to confirm my name & address - I declined !  I refuse to engage with cold callers as they could be fakes !

[Deleted User]

niktheguru said:

You may well be right and the apocalypse may come in the future when demand side response facilties are enforced. 

The use of the word enforcement suggests no prior consultation or agreement. To put this into context, suppliers can only disconnect a domestic supply via a Court Order or by prior agreement with the consumer. 

It is worth noting that, inter alia, Parliamentarians were briefed in 2015 that: 

Quote:
Load limiting

Rather than paying more for electricity at peak times, consumers could receive a financial reward if they agreed not to go above a certain usage during these times – in practice, to limit their load. Again this could be automated to respond to a signal that loads need to be limited.

Load-limiting then is a restriction placed on the flow or amount of electricity allowed to a consumer. Smart meter technology can enforce this by temporarily disconnecting the supply if the limit is exceeded. 

Unquote

So we have a situation where a consumer willingly enters into a contract to limit the max kWs that he/she can draw from the Grid at certain peak times. In return, the consumer gets a discount or a reduced standing charge: ie, lower bills. If the AGREED limit is breached, then the supplier sends out text and IHD alerts and, if the consumer fails to respond, the supply is temporarily disconnected. I struggle to see what is wrong with the principles underpinning such an agreement save for the complexity it has added to our smart metering system. The briefing went on to say that suppliers would be legally obliged to confirm that consumers entering into this type of agreement would not be put at risk of physical harm. 

brewerdave

imeach said:

brewerdave said:

 Apparently meter readers were suppllied with spare batteries to fit in the past - but they are an (almost) extinct species !!

Still allegedly 2000 meter readers at MDS and God knows how many at Lowri Beck, then a few other smaller ones

The only batteries I can remember meter readers replacing were on the old prepayment meters but I think that has stopped now

There may well be - but I've only seen two in 6 years - both to read the leccy meter only. AFAIA the gas meter hasn't been read in the last 7 years !! The battery replacement by meter reader was actually mentioned by a former poster who was one.

brewerdave

[Deleted User] said:

In February, there were nearly 21M smart meters connected to the DCC. A total of 359,870,041 messages passed through the hub. I am not sure that I would rely on any supplier to react to a gas battery alert. 

Fortunately, .....

If the Remaining Battery Capacity(4.5.4.16) falls below ten percent of the nominal Battery capacity GSME shall be capable of:

i. generating an entry to that effect in the Event Log(4.5.4.8); and

ii. sending an Alert to that effect via its HAN Interface.

A good reason to keep the IHD plugged in.

But the problem isn't knowing that the battery is on its way out - but on replacing in a timely fashion, something that the Utility Cos. seem unable to do!