CEL Claim Form received, Brighton Ship Street

KeithP

Joey, keep an eye on your Defence filing deadline.

Last Tuesday I wrote...

...you have until 4pm on Monday 19th April 2021 to file your Defence.

joeythepoey

Thanks guys (and gals) - yes, aware of the filing date today so I have to be quick...dealing with a move at the moment and this date has come around very quickly.

@Coupon-mad I was not the driver, I did however download the app to do the payment for them. The driver asked me to do so as they were running late for a meeting at The Project Business Centre (hence them parking at ship street as well).

@KeithP thank you for the reminder!

@Fruitcake @Castle thanks for the advice

Amending it now..

joeythepoey

Fruitcake said:

"In addition, the Claimant also did not comply with section 13 and 14 from POFA 2012 regarding ‘hire vehicles’, in particular section 13 subsection 2: the Claimant did not request a copy of the hire agreement from the lease company nor a statement of liability in their PCN."


In paragraph 14 (2) (a) the PoFA says the documents detailed in paragraph 13 (2) must be given, not requested.
Use the PoFA wording including the use of "paragraph" and "sub-paragraph" rather then "section" or "subsection".


Highlight para 14 failings because they deal with transferring liability to the hirer, whereas para 13 refers to the scammer's ability to hold the keeper (hire company) liable.

14 
(2)The conditions are that—
(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13 (2) and the notice to keeper;

Fruitcake, thanks for your suggestion - sorry for being dense, but I'm a bit foggy as to who should've given the documents to whom?
Should CEL have given a notice to the lease company?

KeithP

It's not too difficult.
@Fruitcake gave you the exact paragraph of POFA to read - 14 (2) (a).

Less than forty minutes to go.

joeythepoey

KeithP said:

It's not too difficult.
@Fruitcake gave you the exact paragraph of POFA to read - 14 (2) (a).

Less than forty minutes to go.

The PCN does include a notice to hirer but none of the PCN's they sent included a statement from or on behalf of the vehicle firm...is that what you mean?

KeithP

POFA 14 (2) (a) says that the creditor, the parking company, must send you, the hirer, a Notice to Hirer together with "together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2)".

Para 13.2 lists:

(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
(b) a copy of the hire agreement; and
(c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

They haven't sent you those documents, have they?

joeythepoey

KeithP said:

POFA 14 (2) (a) says that the creditor, the parking company, must send you, the hirer, a Notice to Hirer together with "together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2)".

Para 13.2 lists:

(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
(b) a copy of the hire agreement; and
(c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

They haven't sent you those documents, have they?

No they haven't; it's just the usual serial copy paste job.

So, I've written this:

3.  The Defendant was first informed about the alleged ‘parking charge’ around 23/12/2019 through a ‘Notice To Driver/Hirer Parking Charge Notice’ (from here on referred to as ‘PCN’) from the Claimant.

From this point on the Defendant received a barrage of threatening letters from the Claimant and various affiliated debt collection agencies encouraging to ‘pay in full or face debt collection’, with the assertion on another that ‘if a judgement were obtained, it might affect your credit rating’ - a claim with rather dubious legality which’ sole purpose was to frighten and harass the Defendant into paying up whatever fees the Claimant had concocted for the PCN.

The Defendant cannot be held liable due to the Claimant not complying with the ‘keeper liability’ requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘POFA 2012’), Schedule 4.

In addition, the Claimant also did not comply with paragraph 13 and 14 from POFA 2012 regarding ‘hire vehicles’, in particular paragraph 14(2) (a) where it’s set out that ‘a statement from or on behalf of the vehicle firm’ detailed in paragraph 13 (2) ‘must be given to the creditor, including a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.’

These should’ve been included in the PCN’s but were not included at any stage.

That should hopefully cover it, right?

Fruitcake

Well, you have sort of covered it, but you will need to highlight it better in your WS. I was trying to get you to include in your defence that 14 (2) (a) states that the documents detailed in 13 (2) must also be given to the hirer (you) as well as the creditor, in order to hold the hirer liable.

 "These should’ve been included in the PCN’s but were not included at any stage" is correct, but could have been reinforced by including the actual PoFA wording, which is why I quoted it in my post.

You need to get your head around this so you fully understand it ready for the WS stage.

joeythepoey

Fruitcake said:

Well, you have sort of covered it, but you will need to highlight it better in your WS. I was trying to get you to include in your defence that 14 (2) (a) states that the documents detailed in 13 (2) must also be given to the hirer (you) as well as the creditor, in order to hold the hirer liable.

 "These should’ve been included in the PCN’s but were not included at any stage" is correct, but could have been reinforced by including the actual PoFA wording, which is why I quoted it in my post.

You need to get your head around this so you fully understand it ready for the WS stage.

Thank you, I'll have another look at that as the WS stage is where I'm at - received my notice of allocation so working on that tomorrow. Are there any other things I could include, it feels odd writing a WS when I wasn't the driver at the time of the alleged offence?

Coupon-mad

No, it's normal, you write what you do know about the event, the car park, that you were not driving but maybe you are familiar with the place, etc.  Base it around the style of the example posted several times recently by @jrhys