CEL Claim Form received, Brighton Ship Street

joeythepoey

Thanks for your help so far...deadline is tomorrow, so I'm driving over tonight to take some pics of the signage.
I've had some health issues unfortunately, so hence not attending to this sooner and leaving it so late.

To answer a few previous questions:
-no, I didn't reveal who was driving
-I checked POFA 12 sections 13 and 14 and what seems relevant is that they didn't ask for any hire agreements or anything like that - they just went straight for the NTK/Hirer with a demand to pay up - section 13 subsection 2
-the driver was 12 mins late in leaving if the parking was for an hour - I'm still checking to see whether they paid for 1 or 2 hours of parking, the receipts/app don't show it, just an amount - parking was paid via a parking app, no physical ticket.

I've taken the defense from the forum here kindly posted by @Coupon-mad and added the relevant bits:
<Deleted, will upload Dropbox version>

Hope someone can have a quick look over it, I need to send it tomorrow...thanks!

KeithP

Sorry, but I won't be downloading an unknown file to my computer.
Maybe try using Dropbox.


What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Have you filed an Acknowledgment of Service?
If so, upon what date did you do so?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

joeythepoey

KeithP said:

Sorry, but I won't be downloading an unknown file to my computer.
Maybe try using Dropbox.


What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Have you filed an Acknowledgment of Service?
If so, upon what date did you do so?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Appreciate that, have just uploaded it to dropbox instead.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iki0klox7ohfbyg/AAAELYl2mf3sdhNmwjO2H3aKa?dl=0

Also took pics this evening which I've uploaded on Dropbox as well, in addition to my first attempt at a defense.
Annoyingly, these iPhone cameras are getting too good these days, doing a fab job of taking night time pictures, as it was actually quite a bit darker than that - when the driver parked it was end of November so would've been much darker still

AOS:yes

A claim was issued against you on 15/03/2021

Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 27/03/2021 at 12:28:50

Your acknowledgment of service was received on 29/03/2021 at 01:30:27

KeithP

joeythepoey said:

KeithP said:

Sorry, but I won't be downloading an unknown file to my computer.
Maybe try using Dropbox.


What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Have you filed an Acknowledgment of Service?
If so, upon what date did you do so?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

AOS:yes

A claim was issued against you on 15/03/2021

Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 27/03/2021 at 12:28:50

Your acknowledgment of service was received on 29/03/2021 at 01:30:27

You have more time than you think.

With a Claim Issue Date of 15th March, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 19th April 2021 to file your Defence.

That's less than a week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

joeythepoey

Re: deadline, thanks @KeithP, that's good to know.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iki0klox7ohfbyg/AAD9aiOI2C0w4DYiL3AUvZT8a/CEL defense JDM Apr 2021.pdf?dl=0

First attempt at a defence. I'll keep the description of pics for my witness statement ?

SayNoToPCN

Just copy and paste para 2 and 3 - maybe more if you added more para - as we do not need to see the rest of the defence. I never download files from dropbox et al during the day, so I cannot comment. 

Para 13 and 143 of POFA means they need to get the hire docs from teh hire co. they do not ask for them from the person they are sending the NtH to! 

If the driver is NOT the defendant, then this must be stated, and their failure to comply with POFA meaning they cannot hold the Hirer defendant liable explicitly stated in para 3. Slam dunk win, as the court cannot go behind the law here

joeythepoey

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2.       It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle with reg XXXXXX in question but liability is denied.

The Defendant is the hirer/lessee of the car, however was not the driver at the time of the alleged incident, which took place on 27/11/2019.

 3.  The Defendant was first informed about the alleged ‘parking charge’ around 23/12/2019 through a ‘Notice To Driver/Hirer Parking Charge Notice’ (from here on referred to as ‘PCN’) from the Claimant.

From this point on the Defendant received a barrage of threatening letters from the Claimant and various affiliated debt collection agencies encouraging to ‘pay in full or face debt collection’, with the assertion on another that ‘if a judgement were obtained, it might affect your credit rating’ - a claim with rather dubious legality which’ sole purpose was to frighten and harass the Defendant into paying up whatever fees the Claimant had concocted for the PCN.

The Defendant cannot be held liable due to the Claimant not complying with the ‘keeper liability’ requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘POFA 2012’), Schedule 4.

In addition, the Claimant also did not comply with section 13 and 14 from POFA 2012 regarding ‘hire vehicles’, in particular section 13 subsection 2: the Claimant did not request a copy of the hire agreement from the lease company nor a statement of liability in their PCN.

Fruitcake

"In addition, the Claimant also did not comply with section 13 and 14 from POFA 2012 regarding ‘hire vehicles’, in particular section 13 subsection 2: the Claimant did not request a copy of the hire agreement from the lease company nor a statement of liability in their PCN."


In paragraph 14 (2) (a) the PoFA says the documents detailed in paragraph 13 (2) must be given, not requested.
Use the PoFA wording including the use of "paragraph" and "sub-paragraph" rather then "section" or "subsection".


Highlight para 14 failings because they deal with transferring liability to the hirer, whereas para 13 refers to the scammer's ability to hold the keeper (hire company) liable.

14 
(2)The conditions are that—
(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13 (2) and the notice to keeper;

Castle

joeythepoey said:

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2.       It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle with reg XXXXXX in question but liability is denied.

The Defendant is the hirer/lessee of the car, however was not the driver at the time of the alleged incident, which took place on 27/11/2019.

You can't be the registered keeper since it's a hired/leased vehicle.

Coupon-mad

And is it true that you were not the driver?   That's the first time you've said that...are you sure?  Don't lie in court statements.

Obviously if that is UNTRUE and you were the person who downloaded the payment app then you defend as driver.