Parking charge by UKPC for 'out of hours parking'. Chances of success on appeal

kelfish

I have received a parking charge for parking during restricted hours - the charge is for parking for less than 15 minutes after 9pm.
I have read the NEWBIE page and technical issues relating to the same. However, I would like to know the impact on any appeal to UKPC and any subsequent appeal I may take forward to POPLA due to the circumstances of my issue.
The notice was given for a car I am the registered keeper of being present on a car park of a retail park (of which Wickes is the main retailer) during a restricted time. There are two or three other retailers there. (I have spoken to Wickes and have been told the car park is nothing to do with them). The notice was sent by post (taking 6 days to get to my house) and relates to a photograph of the car entering and exiting the car park. No windscreen notice was given. The time of the parking 'offence' was after 9PM and all shops were closed.
I have not replied to UKPC and have not given any details of the driver.

My issues are as follows
A) At the entrance to the car park there are several notices which state :-
1) This car park will be locked 30 minutes after the store closes and will reopen the following morning (details of an early opening charge for release of vehicles is also present on the sign) - The car park was open despite the shops being closed for several hours
2) The standard waiver of liability for loss and damage in the car park
3) A 'Maximum 3 hours stay only in the car park. For terms and conditions see signs in car park' This sign is on a tall car park floodlights as you enter the car park and the cameras are mounted on this floodlight. (There are other signs in the car park giving details of terms and conditions in the car park itself)

There are no signs at the entrance detailing a prohibited or restricted time after which there is a parking charge until you enter the car park. (The majority of these signs have no lights near them although some signs are on other other lighting poles). However, by the time you have entered the car park and are able to read the signs the photograph of the car number plate has already been taken and you cannot know the restriction until you are in the car park

The notices states that the car was present during the restricted time of between 08.30pm to 07.00am. However, the signs in the car park itself state the 'prohibited time' is between 20.00 and 07.00 - to two times do not accord.

I should add that I am aware my vehicle was there another evening around the same time for a similar period (around 10 minutes) but, obviously not since I receive the notice,

My questions are
Will either of the above points have any bearing on the relevance of any appeal?
At present the 'offer' I have is pay within 14 days and the penalty is £60 rather than £100. Should I appeal to UKCP and lose and then proceed to appeal to POPLA and lose what will the penalty be at that stage. Is it still the £100?
Many thanks in advance for any assistance.

Redx

There is no Penalty , just an invoice !! I assume you mean UKPC ( not ukcp ), who never comply with POFA ? (Check the NTK PCN for POFA compliance )

There is no chance of UKPC accepting any appeal , but do so as keeper using the blue text template from the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum , after trying plan A ,  , but no blabbing about who was driving , not to anyone

Your Popla appeal will start with POFA non compliance so no keeper liability

The rest is extra padding , including no landowner authority and poor and inadequate signage etc , but probably will win on POFA and not get as far as your issues

However , plan A is your best option , nothing beats plan A

Anyone who loses at Popla has an implied debt of the full charge , typically £100 , not the discounted bribe of £60

Umkomaas

If this is a multi-retailer site, there's usually a managing agent who's contracted with UKPC. Check the retail park signage at the entrance, that usually has the MA's name - maybe Jones Lang Lasalle - check it out. 

kelfish

Hi guys,
Thanks for your swift responses. Just to be clear - by Plan A you mean writing to the owner of the land? 
and the blue text template do you mean the 'one size fits all' first appeal? Is that all is required in the first instance appeal to UKPC?

Redx

Correct and correct , in that order ( owner , or more usually the managing agent or retailers )

It's people who reveal who was driving to either party who tend to lose money in these cases , clever ones win on a technicality or a good story , so We visited.  We shopped etc , that royal WE gives nothing away

Umkomaas

Tell us which retail park is involved. We may have records here relating to it. 

kelfish

Pinners Brow, Warrington

Redx

kelfish said:

Pinners Brow, Warrington

a quick google search shows agents and owner

https://completelyretail.co.uk/scheme/Pinners-Brow-Retail-Park-Warrington

there is no parking allowed at the time the vehicle was there, so no contract to park, its forbidding signage, you cannot agree to a contract that forbids the act in the first place, ergo its a penalty or trespass against the driver only

no parking contract , no consideration

if UKPC failed to comply with POFA , there is no keeper liability anyway

Pradera seem to be the owber, JLL are mentioned

KeithP

Wickes helped this guy out when asked...

CMS Parking Fine - Wickes Warrington

But that was eight years ago. 

kelfish

Thanks. 
Incredibly helpful.
Sadly the time the vehicle was allegedly present in the car park the shop is detailed as being closed on Google. Wickes cannot confirm that whoever was driving was a customer.
Sorry I am new to this. What exactly are UKPC are required to do to comply with POFA (Protection of Freedoms Act?) and what have they (or likely) failed to have done?

Redx

please read the newbies FAQ sticky thread, it deals with NTK checking and POFA compliance requirements (the law) - in post 1 you said you had read it, including the technical requirements (so we believed you , why wouldnt we ?)

make sure you are well prepared for an hour or more to read , learn and understand POFA requirements

what are they likely failed to have done ? failed on timescales, wording , or both