Advice please! Subsidence caused by neighbour's extension?

Doozergirl

starfluf said:

OK so structural engineer has confirmed movement - possibly drains (which would also tally up with next door extension) possibly water table movement with a housing estate build a few miles away as has disturbed other houses on the road.  His finding have been sent to the insurer.  Can I claim his fees back?  I'm still a bit miffed that I have to claim on my insurance and it's no fault of my own?? 

If it was your fault, the insurers probably wouldn't pay out! 

starfluf

Argghhhh!! OK so insurance company finally got back to us 4 MONTHS after we claimed.  They say it's an ill fitted window.  We've had the window installed 5 years.  The window company have come round to say it's movement not the window.  What do we do?! 

Section62

starfluf said:

Argghhhh!! OK so insurance company finally got back to us 4 MONTHS after we claimed.  They say it's an ill fitted window.  We've had the window installed 5 years.  The window company have come round to say it's movement not the window.  What do we do?! 

More to the point, you had a SE say it was movement of some kind.  How could the insurance company interpret his(?) report to give them the answer "its the window"?

Have they had further investigations carried out?

This is a good example of how relying on insurance and/or LP isn't a panacea for all problems - when they want to, insurance companies will find someone else to pass the buck to, just like most companies (and many people).

I suspect you will need to follow the insurance company's complaints process, but first you need to establish the cause of the problem with more certainty than I think the original SE's report did.

Did building control ever look at the neighbour's extension? Did you get feedback on that?

doodling

Hi,

You need to work out who your (not your insurers) advisors are and discuss this with them.  It sounds like you directly employed a structural engineer so they would be your first choice.  (Although I have some difficulty believing a construction project a mile away would cause this so I might want to check their qualifications!).

What does your structural engineer say in response to the insurance company stating that it is an ill fitting window?

Do you know who is advising the insurers - presumably they would have come and inspected the property - what were their qualifications?

To progress this, you will either need your own expert to explain to the insurance company that they are wrong (possibly even explain to a court), or you will have to accept what he insurance company are saying.

starfluf

Our structural engineer says it's movement, the window company says it's movement.  We've had the house 16 years and never seen anything like this.  The insurance company were there briefly and say it's a window issue.  They won't send us there original report.  I'm concerned for my tenants about the ongoing time frame all of this.  We're now going to take the next stage and complain further up to Lloyds directly as we appear to have more evidence than they have.  I'd like them to revisit the house if they are won't share there original findings. 

doodling

Hi,

Has your structural engineer produced a report for you?  You need to get a written report from her/him identifying what has happened, their explanation of why and ideally a suggestion as to what is required to put things right.

Once you have that report, you need to complain to your insurers referencing both your structural engineer's report and your insurance policy, explaining what has happened and why that is covered by the policy.  Ideally you also need to say what you want e.g. you expect the insurance company to pay the for works as detailed in page X of your structural engineer's report.

If that doesn't have the desired effect then the next step may be legal action against your insurers (or, if you have strong evidence that the cause is the works your neighbour has carried out, directly against your neighbour).

There may be some form of ombudsman stage possible before legal action, others might comment on whether there is and whether it is worthwhile.

Section62

doodling said:

If that doesn't have the desired effect then the next step may be legal action against your insurers (or, if you have strong evidence that the cause is the works your neighbour has carried out, directly against your neighbour).

There may be some form of ombudsman stage possible before legal action, others might comment on whether there is and whether it is worthwhile.

There is, and it should be followed before considering legal action against the insurer, but first you have to follow the insurer's complaints process (as per my comment on 7 October)

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/insurance/home-insurance

The difficulty is the SE's report is a bit vague - it doesn't pin the problem on the building work next door, and could be read in a way which suggests the movement is not an insurable event.  In handling any complaint I think the insurer could currently say that it is the word of one expert against another.

So to progress this the OP needs a SE opinion which is more definitive and clearly identifies the cause of the movement to be something covered by the insurance policy.

starfluf

Hi everyone.  Lloyds (the next level about Just Landlords) have emailed to say my claim is not valid.  I'm getting to end of my tether on this now.

According to them, not included in cover is prior damage..... the damage is NEW we've had the house 16y ears they seem to ignore this and the fact we've never claimed! 

I'm annoyed they were there so briefly and didn't check drains etc.

“Also, in this instance, your policy includes a specific exclusion under subsidence cover for loss or damage you can recover through other means, which would include any legal process that would make your neighbour liable for the cost of putting right the damage.”  How does this work i.e. damage to your car by another car goes through insurance company

They claim "These are new pieces of evidence which were not available to underwriters when the decision to decline your claim was taken or when they issued their response to your complaint. My review of your complaint must determine whether underwriters adjusted your claim fairly and reasonably based on the information available to them". NEW EVIDENCE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE!!  Why is it now NOT considered - I only contacted window company after our claim led to this apparently being the case.

They offered us £100 compensation due to delay.  Am not disputing the  £100 - however with this happening doesn’t put trust in the company on how it’s unfolding

Our structural engineer has given me 3 options as he says they are working on 'policy interpretation' and that's why they're no paying out so do we; 

1. elevate to FO 
2. specialist claims (costs) no risk no fee
3. commission further investigation - i.e drains, site investigation, grand wet or dry.  standard penetration economic costs.  

Just want this fixing.  Worried about getting a builder in and then the building continues to move and more work needed down the line.    

I'm exhausted with all of this now.  Any advice please? 

Section62

starfluf said:

Our structural engineer has given me 3 options as he says they are working on 'policy interpretation' and that's why they're no paying out so do we; 

1. elevate to FO 
2. specialist claims (costs) no risk no fee
3. commission further investigation - i.e drains, site investigation, grand wet or dry.  standard penetration economic costs.  

Just want this fixing.  Worried about getting a builder in and then the building continues to move and more work needed down the line.    

I'm exhausted with all of this now.  Any advice please? 

“Also, in this instance, your policy includes a specific exclusion under subsidence cover for loss or damage you can recover through other means, which would include any legal process that would make your neighbour liable for the cost of putting right the damage.”

This means if you can sue the neighbour then your insurance won't pay out.  This is where legal assistance comes in - help for you to sue the neighbour, rather than your insurer paying the claim and seeking to recover its costs from those at fault.

On that basis (assuming the policy working is accurate) a complaint to the FOS is likely to only be on the relatively narrow grounds of how their customer service performance has been... in which case £100 is not an entirely unreasonable sum.

What kind of legal assistance cover do you have?  It could be an extra on an insurance policy, or something via work or union membership.