Euro Car Parks PCN notice after 10 minutes waiting in Wigan Wallgate carpark - advice please

fisherjim

But that's the point, at the moment it's unregulated only a judge in the SCC can decide whether in this instance they are right or wrong, if it got there.

Le_Kirk

ah1973 said:

I had always thought that contract terms had to be reasonable in so far as how can it be reasonable to expect people to enter a car park, read the signage and then having done so decided that they do not want to enter into that contract and leave, as that is effectively what I did. So parking to them is literally entering the carpark and being there for any length of time regardless of whether the car was vacated or not or even the engine stopped? Just doesn't seem right to me, even if it's apparently totally legal?

But you didn't do that, you stayed around waiting for a train to arrive.  If you had pulled in, read, left, you would be morally and legally (as far as these parking scammers are legal) in the right and be able to defend wholeheartedly.  The grace periods are there for those who decide to leave.  If you find and read the relevant Code of Practice (CoP) and since Euro Car Parks are in the BPA that is the CoP that you want and you will see that if you decide to stay, the grace period is negated and you have 5 minutes to purchase a ticket.

D_P_Dance

Where is the evidence for that claim please?

Hansard  HoC debate on Sir Greg Knight's PMB, second reading I think.   

ah1973

Le_Kirk said:

ah1973 said:

I had always thought that contract terms had to be reasonable in so far as how can it be reasonable to expect people to enter a car park, read the signage and then having done so decided that they do not want to enter into that contract and leave, as that is effectively what I did. So parking to them is literally entering the carpark and being there for any length of time regardless of whether the car was vacated or not or even the engine stopped? Just doesn't seem right to me, even if it's apparently totally legal?

But you didn't do that, you stayed around waiting for a train to arrive.  If you had pulled in, read, left, you would be morally and legally (as far as these parking scammers are legal) in the right and be able to defend wholeheartedly.  The grace periods are there for those who decide to leave.  If you find and read the relevant Code of Practice (CoP) and since Euro Car Parks are in the BPA that is the CoP that you want and you will see that if you decide to stay, the grace period is negated and you have 5 minutes to purchase a ticket.

Understood. I get that I'm on weak ground even though I still think it's sneaky thing for them to do. I'll pay the £60 charge. Thanks everyone.
The irony is I only waited there so as to not cause an obstruction and help others wanting to wait outside Wallgate as there's very limited waiting space outside, I was trying to be considerate to others as I was a little bit early for the train's arrival. I'll be more "selfish" next time...

Redx

When the new mandatory CoP comes out later this year the grace periods may change , so that will influence decisions , plus it will become a regulated industry , not cowboy country , so keep up to date with those new rules on private property

10 minutes may become that limit , to stay or go

If ECP complied with POFA , you were a lamb to the slaughter

Fruitcake

ah1973 said:

Le_Kirk said:

ah1973 said:

I had always thought that contract terms had to be reasonable in so far as how can it be reasonable to expect people to enter a car park, read the signage and then having done so decided that they do not want to enter into that contract and leave, as that is effectively what I did. So parking to them is literally entering the carpark and being there for any length of time regardless of whether the car was vacated or not or even the engine stopped? Just doesn't seem right to me, even if it's apparently totally legal?

But you didn't do that, you stayed around waiting for a train to arrive.  If you had pulled in, read, left, you would be morally and legally (as far as these parking scammers are legal) in the right and be able to defend wholeheartedly.  The grace periods are there for those who decide to leave.  If you find and read the relevant Code of Practice (CoP) and since Euro Car Parks are in the BPA that is the CoP that you want and you will see that if you decide to stay, the grace period is negated and you have 5 minutes to purchase a ticket.

Understood. I get that I'm on weak ground even though I still think it's sneaky thing for them to do. I'll pay the £60 charge. Thanks everyone.
The irony is I only waited there so as to not cause an obstruction and help others wanting to wait outside Wallgate as there's very limited waiting space outside, I was trying to be considerate to others as I was a little bit early for the train's arrival. I'll be more "selfish" next time...

Or drive round the block then pick up your passenger on double or single yellow lines. As long as there are no kerb blips or signs prohibiting pick up/drop off, then it is perfectly lawful to stop there.

Personally I wouldn't pay an unregulated scammer on principle, but it is your money to do with as you wish. I would get pics of the site and signage including the entrance, find out if it is railway land where a keeper cannot be liable before I decided what else to do.
Network Rail and/or the train operating company should be able to tell you if the land is a railway asset, or railway signs within the car park, or the station master if there is one.

KeithP

Unusually, Google Street View car went into this car park, drove all around it showing all the signs and payment machines. 

This car park even has a traffic light controlled exit.

These two points help lead me to think it might be railway land.

Le_Kirk

KeithP said:

Unusually, Google Street View car went into this car park, drove all around it showing all the signs and payment machines. 
This car park even has a traffic light controlled exit.
These two points help lead me to think it might be railway land.

This from @keithP along with the advice from @Fruitcake might have just saved you £60

ah1973

Le_Kirk said:

KeithP said:

Unusually, Google Street View car went into this car park, drove all around it showing all the signs and payment machines. 
This car park even has a traffic light controlled exit.
These two points help lead me to think it might be railway land.

This from @keithP along with the advice from @Fruitcake might have just saved you £60

Yeah I guess so, but given I'm working 7 days a week just now (not contractually I might add, I work in the public sector where the current workload is meaning working weekends is unavoidable just now) I truly don't have time or energy to fight this and gave up sooner than I normally would have done. What is even worse for me, I am a (recent) blue badge holder and I've just realised, I could have just parked up on the kerb on the double yellows, near the car parks adjacent to the platforms on the other side of the road from that ECP, stuck my badge on the dashboard for those 10 minutes and know now that would have been perfectly legal (unless I've just misunderstood the rules in the booklet that came with it). Ouch.

blackdog2220

or you could just kick off at popla about how no leeway was given to a blue badge holder and how non consumer (blue badge) friendly the ANPR system is