BW LEGAL offered without prejudice offer on PCN - help for next steps.

KeithP

kk1223 said:

BW Legal have today given their witness statement and I have a copy.  Can I refer to what they have said in their witness statement and comment on it in my statement? 

Yes of course, but don't miss the deadline for filing your Witness Statement and evidence.

kk1223

Sorry another question- The PCN was issued 3 years ago.  
Can I rely on Google Maps for images of a car park and photos I took recently of the car park signs as long as I date the photos? 
Their WS just gives a pdf style format of an image of a sign not an 'actual sign' 

Fruitcake

If you have the scammers WS, please post it here asap so we can comment on it, and you can include our comments in your WS.

Only redact YOUR personal data. If the WS is excessively long, please post the first page with the name of the (para)legal, and the last page with the signature and statement of truth, plus their evidence and exhibits, especially the alleged contract between the landowner and scammers. If the scammers have redacted anything, please tell us.

I cannot emphasise enough the importance of the words I have highlighted. 

KeithP

kk1223 said:

Sorry another question- The PCN was issued 3 years ago.  
Can I rely on Google Maps for images of a car park and photos I took recently of the car park signs as long as I date the photos? 

Google Street View can often step back in time.
Look at the top left when in GSV and click on the little clock... 

kk1223

The WS is long!! 
Attached agreement. This is the only agreement they have put in. The other exhibits are a site plan attached and pdf documents of signs. which I have included below.  Other exhibits are PCN charge copy, picture of my car, email of my appeal (I can supply that too if needed?) 

Umkomaas

The WS, apart from the first few paras, is not uploading. 

Of the 85 people of influence listed at Companies House, S Roche doesn't appear to be one of them!

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/01717239/officers?page=2

Coupon-mad

Did a solicitor at BW Legal actually supply as 'evidence' that hand-drawing by someone who has just joined some dots and misspelt 'Science'?!  

And is that single page the only effort at a landowner agreement?  How do we know what the t&cs and definitions and applicable hours, and start and expiry dates are?

Johnersh

Pace v Lengyl is your friend. 

If one adopts that line of reasoning (and there no guarantees that the DJ in this case must) but... 

The contract is umpossible to perform if:
1. The sign offers parking only fo permit holders (i.e. not to the o/p);
2. AND The o/p is not entitled to a permit;
3. AND Therefore the o/p cannot possibly display a permit or as a non resident have an assigned spot;
4. As a lawful visitor you were not supplied with a permit or informed of any need. The sign does not refer to virtual permits and it is not reasonable to expect you to be aware of them, let alone acquire one. To ask you to get a permit in advance, as suggested in the statement, would require the terms of parking or restrictions to have been notified in advance together with information as to how to get a virtual permit. There is no evidence the ppc did that or indeed that any other party did. 
5. The charge applies only for breaches of the failure to display a permit (which is impossible in the o/p's case)
6. The charge is not for parking (ie as an alternative to displaying a permit). It is in fact a penalty for breach of contract terms - as evidenced by the wording "failure to comply. "

NB (6) is distinct from Beavis who didn't have a penalty clause as the fee was reasonable given he could've returned to his car earlier and had benefited from free parking). That doesn't fly where the signage places the o/p into an immediate breach of contract and then seeks to demand £100. 

Incidentally, there are 1000 alternative ways to make signs or contracts that *could* work, but that ain't it. For example everyone could agree to pay £100 to park, with an exemption for those in numbered bays with permits acquired cheaply in advance.  That'd work

(I note too, signs were not seen, but that's a separate point to the impossibility one) 

Johnersh

The statement is BS. A witness statement is not for a line by line dissection of the pleadings - it's an abuse.

Lots of county and high court cases address it, but this is nice... 
https://www.civillitigationbrief.com/2016/04/27/a-basic-thing-that-anyone-preparing-a-witness-statement-should-know-the-difference-between-facts-and-opinion/ 

Where is the fact? We get that they don't agree, thanks. 
Did the parking attendant have an ipad?
What if the car was allocated a virtual permit but in a numbered spot. Did anyone even check?
Where's the statement from the parking attendant?
Who drew the plan and when? Are we honestly saying that a commercial agreement for an entire business park's parking scheme appears to gave been drawn on a napkin?
Are the roads and bays accurately represented to establish sufficient signage. Its hardly to scale... That point of course relating to whether you should've seen the sign (or not). 

nosferatu1001

OP - read and digest the above! JOnersh is legally qualified, but of course isnt acting for yoiu. Just friendly advice