Buy a flat in London now or wait?

Alan2020

FTB_Help said:

Alan2020 said:

FTB_Help said:

RoisinDove said:

Alan2020 said:

I find this thread comical, in the inner zones of London £300k will buy a flat where you can exist. 

Many of these people haven’t lived life. It reminds me of someone who asked me to help a friend buy a property mortgage free out of an inheritance. So I found 2 houses one to rent out and the other to live in all bought mortgage free. Anyway this person didn’t like it and asked me to come and view a flat in London. I genuinely feared for my life in this ex la flat, but this person bought it. Absolutely grotty, the irony was she said she loved the London lifestyle- I didn’t want to be cruel and point out she had an existence style.
Lifestyle in most suburbs of England is something achievable at about an income of £30k as a single person, in London I put it at about £120k

If anyone sits in the tube and look at peoples eyes, they are all sad - as my friend once eloquently put it, London is the city where dreams are broken 

Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

You seem to think the 'London lifestyle' is vapid and grotty, that it's about going to overpriced bars and wasting money. One of the reasons I love London is that I can meet people from all over the world so easily and do just about any hobby I want. Not so easy in a small town. 

Couldn't agree more with you.

There are many people that do just "exist" in London, but the same can also be said about the fairytale Surburban life, im sure there are plenty of "happily" married couples with 2 kids a quiet house, garden, shiny car that too also just exist miserably for many years because its easy and "right"

Just because someone in their 30's enjoys the London city life and can only afford a small flat in London does not mean they have "not lived".

I might only be 33, but doesnt mean i've spent my life only existing.

I come from immigrant parents, who moved here at 21, we grew up poorer than poor in a council estate (3 bed 6 kids!) 30 some yrs later theres an Oxford grad, a scientist, a math grad (me) in the family.

All my siblings live in "grotty" London, we don't just exist, we have seen and experienced hardship and things many people haven't.

I've travelled to over 20 different countries (and no not staying in an all inclusive resort shovelling chips and beer all day!) whilst holding down a full time job too.

The main reason why I'm staying in London is because me and my fiance love it here.

Don't let someone make you feel bad and judge you for the life you have.

Sorry but you don't have anything to compare, unless I am missing something.
This website forum is about saving money.  For every level of income you can maximise your "lifestyle"
Unless you are on high income, London or any big/expensive place isn't maximising it.
If you go and live outside London, in a few other places, you will realise, that people in London with an income below £100K or so are barely living.  Most people haven't lived outside - by this I mean actually lived, not as a student or on holidays.

If you have £3K take home and spend £2K on the mortgage you have £1K to live life with
Or you spend £0.5K on the mortgage and have £2.5K to live with.

Whilst in your mind travelling to 20 countries is an achievement, to me its a wasted opportunity.  When I lived outside London in my detached house on a salary less than the OP, every Friday I would drive to Gatwick after work and Fly to a new place on a budget airline and be back to work on Monday, and enjoy some fantastic stuff - to me thats lifestyle.  How could I afford it, well my mortage was minuscule compared to my salary.  Mind you I was also saving.  This was in a property that was 100sqm and I could be in London in about 40mins and paying a quarter of the mortgage. 

I did in no way say me travelling was an achievement.

On one hand you're saying that was a wasted opportunity then the next saying you fly out every friday, so is that a wasted opportunity too?

Maximising life is not about what you own or could own.

For OP time is worth so much more than more living space.

You sound like you're from an older generation (I'm not saying that to be hurtful) but times have changed, the younger generation value things differently to the older generation.

Time, culture, enjoyable career,  learning is what the younger generation value, to assume that someone has not lived because they want to stay in big city is just ignorant.

I just was trying to say, maybe if you lived in a cheaper place you might have been able to travel to a lot more than 20places. A lost opportunity for little gain.
I am not taking any offence, this is a forum for people to debate and there is nothing personal so don't worry!
I am politely saying perhaps you need to look at the views of people who have lived and owned properties both in and out of London, a London centric view is ignorant as well.
Do you think in your flat you can store a car, a caravan, a boat, a road bike, a mountain bike, a paragliding kit, a surfboard, a pair of skis, a snowboard, a BMX bike, have an outdoor kitchen, have a personal study, a guest bedroom, full music kit including drums and guitar and practice without disturbing your neighbours?
Young people highly value the things I mentioned, but the vast majority of young people in "central" London (forget the rich kids) cannot afford to do this.  Yes, there are lots of museums, galleries'  and events to go to in London, which if you haven't realised, people outside of London can afford to do this on a daily basis, by hopping onto a train with a cheap off peak ticket.
But the same young person in London has a subset of the life of a younger person living within visiting/commuting distance of London.
As you point out, you grew up in London, similarly there are people who grew up in a tiny village and think London is terrible.  I beg to differ and say that if you are smart you can have the best of both worlds.  Once your income exceeds a certain level, you can have a piece of many worlds.

OldMusicGuy

RoisinDove said:

These were my thoughts re Brighton too. It's still just about commutable to London, but has a lot more going on in its own right than places like Reading or Bishop's Stortford. I had read that the trains can be packed and unreliable, but perhaps not as much of an issue if not doing a regular 9-5 schedule? I am a bit concerned that after covid blows over, companies may decide to largely go back to in-office working and that could mean having to go in regularly, but it seems unlikely. 

I will try to go to Brighton a few times when it's possible and take a look around. It feels riskier buying somewhere I don't know at all, so will have to do my research on areas and whatnot. I'd want to be close to the main station to reduce having to walk a lot when returning home at night - looks like this should be achievable on my budget. And being right by the sea would be absolutely wonderful! I can just imagine now being able to walk on the beach with a coffee before work...amazing!

Another concern is I do travel loads for work and leisure (before covid, at least once a month, sometimes up to 3 weekends out of 4), so London has always been extremely handy regarding being able to get to airports and the Eurostar. I have my choice of 4 airports here (City is just a short Uber ride away!) whereas Brighton would limit me to Gatwick (where several airlines have now closed their bases), unless I wanted a very long journey with multiple changes. Perhaps that would be a small price to pay in return for getting a nice flat in a bustling city on the coast? 

The commute from Brighton to London is fine because you will always get a seat. Yes, the trains fill up en route but you won't care as you will be sat in a seat and don't have to get off until you reach London. Coming back will depend on how early you are prepared to be at Victoria/London Bridge ahead of the train leaving. Southern Rail does have a terrible reputation so that is something to bear in mind, although I used to do battle with British Rail back in the day, and that was not good.

The beauty of Brighton is that the night life and general "scene" is IMO just as diverse and exciting as London (unless you want West End theatre) but is packed in a smaller area. You can walk to pretty much everything within 30 minutes. Mind you, I'm comparing it in the 70s/80s when I was young. However, since then Brighton has been redeveloped and improved beyond belief (rather like Bristol) and from what I can see when I go back is even more vibrant than it was. So it's well worth sampling. I will add that I'm an arty/alternative/indie type so it really suits me. But if you are more classical music/opera/fine arts/West End, then London will win.

It's also an uplifting place to live. There's lovely countryside nearby and I remember driving past the Marina down into the city one summer evening and feeling my spirits soar as I saw the sun setting across the sea front. 

You're right about Gatwick vs Heathrow, that's another factor to think about. But it's easy to get to from Brighton.  

[Deleted User]

Alan2020 said:

RoisinDove said:

Alan2020 said:

I find this thread comical, in the inner zones of London £300k will buy a flat where you can exist. 

Many of these people haven’t lived life. It reminds me of someone who asked me to help a friend buy a property mortgage free out of an inheritance. So I found 2 houses one to rent out and the other to live in all bought mortgage free. Anyway this person didn’t like it and asked me to come and view a flat in London. I genuinely feared for my life in this ex la flat, but this person bought it. Absolutely grotty, the irony was she said she loved the London lifestyle- I didn’t want to be cruel and point out she had an existence style.
Lifestyle in most suburbs of England is something achievable at about an income of £30k as a single person, in London I put it at about £120k

If anyone sits in the tube and look at peoples eyes, they are all sad - as my friend once eloquently put it, London is the city where dreams are broken 

Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

You seem to think the 'London lifestyle' is vapid and grotty, that it's about going to overpriced bars and wasting money. One of the reasons I love London is that I can meet people from all over the world so easily and do just about any hobby I want. Not so easy in a small town. 

I am just sharing my opinion, ultimately its up to you to decide what to do.  You ask for advice mine is;
Go to potential places have a look at what you can get for your money
Take a look at this for instance, you could probably get it for £300K if you negotiate a bit
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/84782305#/
You could leave central London at midnight and be home in  37 minutes and live in a comfortable house, have a car, drive to the woods or take a train to the beach, be at the one of the largest shopping center - bluewater, in the country in several minutes drive.  Right at the doorstep are several pubs and restaurants, you are literally where Charles Dickens spent his life, perhaps go to the museum there.

Alternatively you can have a small ex la flat, in a grotty neighborhood where if you ever have a child would be difficult to raise.  The only advantage you will get is that you can stay later than midnight/last train time and perhaps save 15minutes on the commute and the possible increase in value if prices go up and you aren't landed massive bills for the leasehold

If your salary is £120K then London is realistic to have a reasonable home and lifestyle.

You should go and look at places before you make up your mind, otherwise you don't know what you are missing.   

That place looks like my idea of hell!

This flat in SE London which I posted earlier looks more appealing:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/73745835#/

You'd be minutes from a landscaped Victorian park (Hilly Fields), and a short walk from a farmer's market.

Depends what OP wants of course, as these properties will appeal to very different people.

FTB_Help

Alan2020 said:

FTB_Help said:

Alan2020 said:

FTB_Help said:

RoisinDove said:

Alan2020 said:

I find this thread comical, in the inner zones of London £300k will buy a flat where you can exist. 

Many of these people haven’t lived life. It reminds me of someone who asked me to help a friend buy a property mortgage free out of an inheritance. So I found 2 houses one to rent out and the other to live in all bought mortgage free. Anyway this person didn’t like it and asked me to come and view a flat in London. I genuinely feared for my life in this ex la flat, but this person bought it. Absolutely grotty, the irony was she said she loved the London lifestyle- I didn’t want to be cruel and point out she had an existence style.
Lifestyle in most suburbs of England is something achievable at about an income of £30k as a single person, in London I put it at about £120k

If anyone sits in the tube and look at peoples eyes, they are all sad - as my friend once eloquently put it, London is the city where dreams are broken 

Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

You seem to think the 'London lifestyle' is vapid and grotty, that it's about going to overpriced bars and wasting money. One of the reasons I love London is that I can meet people from all over the world so easily and do just about any hobby I want. Not so easy in a small town. 

Couldn't agree more with you.

There are many people that do just "exist" in London, but the same can also be said about the fairytale Surburban life, im sure there are plenty of "happily" married couples with 2 kids a quiet house, garden, shiny car that too also just exist miserably for many years because its easy and "right"

Just because someone in their 30's enjoys the London city life and can only afford a small flat in London does not mean they have "not lived".

I might only be 33, but doesnt mean i've spent my life only existing.

I come from immigrant parents, who moved here at 21, we grew up poorer than poor in a council estate (3 bed 6 kids!) 30 some yrs later theres an Oxford grad, a scientist, a math grad (me) in the family.

All my siblings live in "grotty" London, we don't just exist, we have seen and experienced hardship and things many people haven't.

I've travelled to over 20 different countries (and no not staying in an all inclusive resort shovelling chips and beer all day!) whilst holding down a full time job too.

The main reason why I'm staying in London is because me and my fiance love it here.

Don't let someone make you feel bad and judge you for the life you have.

Sorry but you don't have anything to compare, unless I am missing something.
This website forum is about saving money.  For every level of income you can maximise your "lifestyle"
Unless you are on high income, London or any big/expensive place isn't maximising it.
If you go and live outside London, in a few other places, you will realise, that people in London with an income below £100K or so are barely living.  Most people haven't lived outside - by this I mean actually lived, not as a student or on holidays.

If you have £3K take home and spend £2K on the mortgage you have £1K to live life with
Or you spend £0.5K on the mortgage and have £2.5K to live with.

Whilst in your mind travelling to 20 countries is an achievement, to me its a wasted opportunity.  When I lived outside London in my detached house on a salary less than the OP, every Friday I would drive to Gatwick after work and Fly to a new place on a budget airline and be back to work on Monday, and enjoy some fantastic stuff - to me thats lifestyle.  How could I afford it, well my mortage was minuscule compared to my salary.  Mind you I was also saving.  This was in a property that was 100sqm and I could be in London in about 40mins and paying a quarter of the mortgage. 

I did in no way say me travelling was an achievement.

On one hand you're saying that was a wasted opportunity then the next saying you fly out every friday, so is that a wasted opportunity too?

Maximising life is not about what you own or could own.

For OP time is worth so much more than more living space.

You sound like you're from an older generation (I'm not saying that to be hurtful) but times have changed, the younger generation value things differently to the older generation.

Time, culture, enjoyable career,  learning is what the younger generation value, to assume that someone has not lived because they want to stay in big city is just ignorant.

I just was trying to say, maybe if you lived in a cheaper place you might have been able to travel to a lot more than 20places. A lost opportunity for little gain.
I am not taking any offence, this is a forum for people to debate and there is nothing personal so don't worry!
I am politely saying perhaps you need to look at the views of people who have lived and owned properties both in and out of London, a London centric view is ignorant as well.
Do you think in your flat you can store a car, a caravan, a boat, a road bike, a mountain bike, a paragliding kit, a surfboard, a pair of skis, a snowboard, a BMX bike, have an outdoor kitchen, have a personal study, a guest bedroom, full music kit including drums and guitar and practice without disturbing your neighbours?
Young people highly value the things I mentioned, but the vast majority of young people in "central" London (forget the rich kids) cannot afford to do this.  Yes, there are lots of museums, galleries'  and events to go to in London, which if you haven't realised, people outside of London can afford to do this on a daily basis, by hopping onto a train with a cheap off peak ticket.
But the same young person in London has a subset of the life of a younger person living within visiting/commuting distance of London.
As you point out, you grew up in London, similarly there are people who grew up in a tiny village and think London is terrible.  I beg to differ and say that if you are smart you can have the best of both worlds.  Once your income exceeds a certain level, you can have a piece of many worlds.

I honestly dont think i could have travelled any more than i have!

When i say 20+ countries i mean different countries (not 4 different city somewhere in France etc)

I've explored African/ Sri Lankan safaris, I've (unsuccessfully) hunted for the Northern lights in various countries, I've camped in the freezing Jordan dessert under a bed of stars, I've stayed deep in the Balinese jungle where i was awoken every morning by scary monkeys on my balcony to name a few.

If i lived somewhere cheaper then i probably would have been able to bump myself up to a 5 star hotel and first class but that all.

I completely see where you're comming from, but you also have to understand other views too, your way is not gospel. What I'm getting at is there are many people who can have an enriching life without the big house.

Im very lucky to have best of both worlds, i can afford a nice, big place in London but if i was earning less then i would be happy to own small flat in London too.

A few yrs back, i was only earning half my salary now and was in search for a small flat to buy, but illness meant that was put in hold, the place we wanted resold last year for 58k more.

I could probably afford a big 4 bed detched somewhere in Kent but my priority is for my future kids to be close to my family.

But i totally see what you mean too about having more space (although not sure I'd want all that equipment in my house! What do you do to have all of that stuff for anyway? 🙂)

Alan2020

RoisinDove said:  

I am keeping quite an open mind at the moment. I definitely haven't ruled out living somewhere cheaper than London or Brighton. 
I feel like your points don't really take into account different preferences or situations...the largest shopping centre in the country is the last place on earth I'd ever want to go, for example. I do like walking in the woods but hardly ideal for a single woman to be tramping around them alone? Would it be easy to meet other people my age there, who weren't settled down with families? 

I don't think I have a bad lifestyle in London on 55K tbh. I can afford to rent a nice flat alone, get a nice shop in from Ocado, eat out pretty often, go to plays/films/concerts a lot, pop over to Paris on the Eurostar, with St Pancras under 30 mins away from my flat. Is that bad? Obviously I'd prefer to be on 120K and buy in a great area like Richmond where I could get the best of both worlds, but in general I'm happier here than I was living in other places.

".the largest shopping centre in the country is the last place on earth I'd ever want to go, for example."
What is the difference between this an oxford street, its cleaner, under a roof and less likely to get mugged or stabbed
 "I do like walking in the woods but hardly ideal for a single woman to be tramping around them alone?"
We aren't talking of some jungle in a war torn area, I find it surprising despite you saying you have lived in a number of places.  It is possibly as dangerous as walking in Clapham Common but statistically probably less people get stabbed in the woods than by a gang in London.  Also, a single woman in the countryside is not some rare event, loads of single women live fulfilling lives outside London! 
 "Would it be easy to meet other people my age there, who weren't settled down with families? "
Yes, outside London you can join various meet up (https://www.meetup.com/) groups for instance, join various clubs and you can drive to these events.  There are local rambling groups, you pay £20 or so, a coach picks you up with like minded people, you go walking with them in the woods, go to a countryside pub, and then go home.  Or drive to a cycling group going to ride mountain bikes in the night, join the group with the same skill level and go cycling using bike lamps at night.  You obviously drive there with your bike.  Can you meet someone, maybe - maybe not!  You can also go into London on the train.   

fewcloudy

Alan2020 said:

RoisinDove said:  

I am keeping quite an open mind at the moment. I definitely haven't ruled out living somewhere cheaper than London or Brighton. 
I feel like your points don't really take into account different preferences or situations...the largest shopping centre in the country is the last place on earth I'd ever want to go, for example. I do like walking in the woods but hardly ideal for a single woman to be tramping around them alone? Would it be easy to meet other people my age there, who weren't settled down with families? 

I don't think I have a bad lifestyle in London on 55K tbh. I can afford to rent a nice flat alone, get a nice shop in from Ocado, eat out pretty often, go to plays/films/concerts a lot, pop over to Paris on the Eurostar, with St Pancras under 30 mins away from my flat. Is that bad? Obviously I'd prefer to be on 120K and buy in a great area like Richmond where I could get the best of both worlds, but in general I'm happier here than I was living in other places.

".the largest shopping centre in the country is the last place on earth I'd ever want to go, for example."
What is the difference between this an oxford street, its cleaner, under a roof and less likely to get mugged or stabbed
 "I do like walking in the woods but hardly ideal for a single woman to be tramping around them alone?"
We aren't talking of some jungle in a war torn area, I find it surprising despite you saying you have lived in a number of places.  It is possibly as dangerous as walking in Clapham Common but statistically probably less people get stabbed in the woods than by a gang in London.  Also, a single woman in the countryside is not some rare event, loads of single women live fulfilling lives outside London! 
 "Would it be easy to meet other people my age there, who weren't settled down with families? "
Yes, outside London you can join various meet up (https://www.meetup.com/) groups for instance, join various clubs and you can drive to these events.  There are local rambling groups, you pay £20 or so, a coach picks you up with like minded people, you go walking with them in the woods, go to a countryside pub, and then go home.  Or drive to a cycling group going to ride mountain bikes in the night, join the group with the same skill level and go cycling using bike lamps at night.  You obviously drive there with your bike.  Can you meet someone, maybe - maybe not!  You can also go into London on the train.   

I completely understand the OP, and I think you need to accept that it’s OK to have different preferences.
It’s not a right or wrong thing, imo.

Alan2020

Poster_586329 said:

That place looks like my idea of hell!

This flat in SE London which I posted earlier looks more appealing:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/73745835#/

You'd be minutes from a landscaped Victorian park (Hilly Fields), and a short walk from a farmer's market.

Depends what OP wants of course, as these properties will appeal to very different people.

Each to their own, I know this area reasonably well and would say the location goes sort of like this
Bromley>Pettswood>Beckenham>Penge>Lee>Hithergreen>Ladywell 
I would happily live in the nicer parts of the first three, I personally would hate living in a grotty place like that.  Imagine living in a tiny, poorly noise insulated conversion flat - no thanks

annetheman

RoisinDove said:

annetheman said:

Just popped in to see if Crashy had arrived yet.

We seem to be safe. OP, you're asking a lot of the questions I had before I decided to bite - I bought shared ownership of a 2 bedroom flat alone. Purpose being lodger rental potential should I need it and room to grow - I would say in our region, it is neigh on impossible to buy alone without some sort of scheme be it HTB or SO. Not unless family give you big big big bucks or you wait until mid-40s. At 30, it seemed a sensible gamble for me to go into it alone.

So far, so good! Of course, in my profession (pharma) and at my stage in my profession, there is the real possibility I could need to do a year in the global offices or another affiliate; but it's not a big enough 'problem' for me to wait until average 2 beds are half a million or whatever.

The what ifs for me never came to outweigh the downsides of not starting to build equity whilst I can - there is no guarantee I will be able to even 6 months from now. 

Make whatever decision is right for YOU, many people will tell you not to touch SO or a flat or buy in London or this or that. If it's right for you, buy a cave in Fife! 

Who is Crashy?  
Yeah, this makes sense. My original goal was 'buy before 40', but it seems silly to keep paying rent for the next 4-5 years and slowly saving (as house prices maybe go up faster than I can save) if I could buy a place, pay the same on mortgage repayments as I would on rent, and then hopefully sell and upgrade (or at least have gained equity in my own home). will you be able to let your home out if you have to move for work?

Who is Crashy? You'll see threads like this awaken him occasionally lol very amusing fellow.

I stay away from age-related life goals unless you are e.g. a woman and talking about a baby. I know I mentioned age but just because after a while you need to consider the shorter mortgage terms available; it doesn't necessarily limit you though.

I absolutely love my new place, especially the location. I can't believe how happy I am here and I could not imagine waiting another year and missing out on it because of the same "what ifs" you have. Would've been the biggest mistake of my life. I calculated I spent £60,000 in 4 years on AST rent before I reserved my property last year, so add on another £12,500 since I only completed 13 days ago! I can only see the affordability gap getting wider so would have missed my chance.....

If I staircase to 100% I can rent it out, but that's in the future - for now, my outgoings are lower by about £300 per month - if I were to move to another affiliate temporarily let's say next year, I would only do so for a significantly larger pay, which would cover the payments I'd make for the temporary period I'd be away. 
E.g. there are regular global assignments in Basel (not too bad to come back occasional weekends from) and I would only need to rent a room there for a year. Meanwhile, I'm continuing to build equity - no "loss" made IMO. 

I didn't buy to make money from it, either. I bought to live in a beautiful flat in a great area I love! I see you also don't really care much to rent your place out, that means all the more reason to buy now if you can. 

Good luck -- whatever you decide, don't move anywhere you don't love!

[Deleted User]

Alan2020 said:

Poster_586329 said:

That place looks like my idea of hell!

This flat in SE London which I posted earlier looks more appealing:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/73745835#/

You'd be minutes from a landscaped Victorian park (Hilly Fields), and a short walk from a farmer's market.

Depends what OP wants of course, as these properties will appeal to very different people.

Each to their own, I know this area reasonably well and would say the location goes sort of like this
Bromley>Pettswood>Beckenham>Penge>Lee>Hithergreen>Ladywell 
I would happily live in the nicer parts of the first three, I personally would hate living in a grotty place like that.  Imagine living in a tiny, poorly noise insulated conversion flat - no thanks

I get your point about converted flats having poor noise insulation.   But this will be much less of an issue if you have the top floor/loft conversion.  Though even so, you'll never enjoy complete silence for long.

Still, this forum often has threads from suburban/provincial folk living in detached houses on modern estates, yet complaining about having noisy/anti-social "neighbours from hell"!  Inconsiderate behaviour can happen anywhere.

onylon

+1 for Crystal Palace
I lived in Croydon (about 40 mins walk away from Crystal Palace park) for 10 years and found it very convenient for pretty much everything. Croydon is basically a city in its own right so it has lots of social stuff going on, multiple shopping centers, plenty of pubs and restaurants etc, great public transport and its an easy train ride to Gatwick. You can get a decent 2 bed flat in your budget too. The only down side is that the area is a bit rough and a lot of our friends seemed to think we were living in an active war zone. I dont see this getting better now that so many young professionals are moving away from the cities and taking their money with them.

I had a similar budget to you and if I was pleasing myself I might have have bought something like this in Glasgow where money goes a bit further.