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Buy a flat in London now or wait?

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  • OldMusicGuy
    OldMusicGuy Posts: 1,768 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

    London or Brighton is it for you IMO. We've been through the same discussions with our son. I grew up in Sussex, my wife's family are from the Reading area and we've lived for the last 20 years in Wokingham. We thought about every possible town on the main lines South and West from London for our son. We know them all quite well. If you want a culturally diverse, vibrant lifestyle in the South it's London or Brighton. The only alternatives he thought about were Bristol and Bath but they are just too far from his job.

    Unless you want a slightly quieter lifestyle and are ready to settle down with a family, all the midsize towns will just be too dull. Unless your job takes you to one of those places, avoid them. You will know when you are ready to move to those kind of places. The "sensible" side of our brains encouraged our son to look at some of the suburbs (from an affordability perspective) but we all agreed he would end up being stifled. He's still young and single.

    FWIW I lived in Brighton for many years and was part of the local music scene. I never thought I would want to leave. But there did come a time in my life when the appeal of a quieter life and a bigger house with a nice garden was the logical move to make.   
  • Alan2020
    Alan2020 Posts: 512 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Alan2020 said:
    I find this thread comical, in the inner zones of London £300k will buy a flat where you can exist. 
    Many of these people haven’t lived life. It reminds me of someone who asked me to help a friend buy a property mortgage free out of an inheritance. So I found 2 houses one to rent out and the other to live in all bought mortgage free. Anyway this person didn’t like it and asked me to come and view a flat in London. I genuinely feared for my life in this ex la flat, but this person bought it. Absolutely grotty, the irony was she said she loved the London lifestyle- I didn’t want to be cruel and point out she had an existence style.
    Lifestyle in most suburbs of England is something achievable at about an income of £30k as a single person, in London I put it at about £120k

    If anyone sits in the tube and look at peoples eyes, they are all sad - as my friend once eloquently put it, London is the city where dreams are broken 

    Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

    You seem to think the 'London lifestyle' is vapid and grotty, that it's about going to overpriced bars and wasting money. One of the reasons I love London is that I can meet people from all over the world so easily and do just about any hobby I want. Not so easy in a small town. 
    I am just sharing my opinion, ultimately its up to you to decide what to do.  You ask for advice mine is;
    Go to potential places have a look at what you can get for your money
    Take a look at this for instance, you could probably get it for £300K if you negotiate a bit
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/84782305#/
    You could leave central London at midnight and be home in  37 minutes and live in a comfortable house, have a car, drive to the woods or take a train to the beach, be at the one of the largest shopping center - bluewater, in the country in several minutes drive.  Right at the doorstep are several pubs and restaurants, you are literally where Charles Dickens spent his life, perhaps go to the museum there.

    Alternatively you can have a small ex la flat, in a grotty neighborhood where if you ever have a child would be difficult to raise.  The only advantage you will get is that you can stay later than midnight/last train time and perhaps save 15minutes on the commute and the possible increase in value if prices go up and you aren't landed massive bills for the leasehold

    If your salary is £120K then London is realistic to have a reasonable home and lifestyle.

    You should go and look at places before you make up your mind, otherwise you don't know what you are missing.   
  • Alan2020
    Alan2020 Posts: 512 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    FTB_Help said:
    Alan2020 said:
    I find this thread comical, in the inner zones of London £300k will buy a flat where you can exist. 
    Many of these people haven’t lived life. It reminds me of someone who asked me to help a friend buy a property mortgage free out of an inheritance. So I found 2 houses one to rent out and the other to live in all bought mortgage free. Anyway this person didn’t like it and asked me to come and view a flat in London. I genuinely feared for my life in this ex la flat, but this person bought it. Absolutely grotty, the irony was she said she loved the London lifestyle- I didn’t want to be cruel and point out she had an existence style.
    Lifestyle in most suburbs of England is something achievable at about an income of £30k as a single person, in London I put it at about £120k

    If anyone sits in the tube and look at peoples eyes, they are all sad - as my friend once eloquently put it, London is the city where dreams are broken 

    Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

    You seem to think the 'London lifestyle' is vapid and grotty, that it's about going to overpriced bars and wasting money. One of the reasons I love London is that I can meet people from all over the world so easily and do just about any hobby I want. Not so easy in a small town. 
    Couldn't agree more with you.
    There are many people that do just "exist" in London, but the same can also be said about the fairytale Surburban life, im sure there are plenty of "happily" married couples with 2 kids a quiet house, garden, shiny car that too also just exist miserably for many years because its easy and "right"

    Just because someone in their 30's enjoys the London city life and can only afford a small flat in London does not mean they have "not lived".
    I might only be 33, but doesnt mean i've spent my life only existing.
    I come from immigrant parents, who moved here at 21, we grew up poorer than poor in a council estate (3 bed 6 kids!) 30 some yrs later theres an Oxford grad, a scientist, a math grad (me) in the family.
    All my siblings live in "grotty" London, we don't just exist, we have seen and experienced hardship and things many people haven't.
    I've travelled to over 20 different countries (and no not staying in an all inclusive resort shovelling chips and beer all day!) whilst holding down a full time job too.

    The main reason why I'm staying in London is because me and my fiance love it here.
    Don't let someone make you feel bad and judge you for the life you have.
    Sorry but you don't have anything to compare, unless I am missing something.
    This website forum is about saving money.  For every level of income you can maximise your "lifestyle"
    Unless you are on high income, London or any big/expensive place isn't maximising it.
    If you go and live outside London, in a few other places, you will realise, that people in London with an income below £100K or so are barely living.  Most people haven't lived outside - by this I mean actually lived, not as a student or on holidays.

    If you have £3K take home and spend £2K on the mortgage you have £1K to live life with
    Or you spend £0.5K on the mortgage and have £2.5K to live with.

    Whilst in your mind travelling to 20 countries is an achievement, to me its a wasted opportunity.  When I lived outside London in my detached house on a salary less than the OP, every Friday I would drive to Gatwick after work and Fly to a new place on a budget airline and be back to work on Monday, and enjoy some fantastic stuff - to me thats lifestyle.  How could I afford it, well my mortage was minuscule compared to my salary.  Mind you I was also saving.  This was in a property that was 100sqm and I could be in London in about 40mins and paying a quarter of the mortgage. 
  • RoisinDove
    RoisinDove Posts: 126 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Just saw this. Our son is looking to buy his first place. Currently renting in SW9, works in central London but can work from home as much as he wants. Budget is around 300K and that doesn't get much in London. He's realised during lockdown that a tiny flat does not make a good long term living environment. He's currently looking at Brighton as we all think it will be ideal for him. He can get some nice places in great locations within his budget.

    The advantages of Brighton are that you have a lively, vibrant city with all kinds of activities and facilities on your doorstep. Great for a social life away from work. The cost of commuting will be an issue but he won't be going in to London all the time. 

    Now we are biased because we have ties to the area, my wife and I both lived in Brighton and I grew up in the area. I commuted daily from Brighton to London for many years and it's an easy commute. You always get a seat at the Brighton end, and trains run most of the night so it doesn't stop you socialising after work in London. Easier (and safer) to get home after a night out than many places in South London. 

    We lived near Reading for many years. I wouldn't move there unless you want to settle down. There's not much going on in Reading (compared to Brighton). And it's nowhere near as vibrant and culturally diverse. Also, Brighton has a much better football team and stadium (although that may not be a consideration.....).

    Best of luck.
    These were my thoughts re Brighton too. It's still just about commutable to London, but has a lot more going on in its own right than places like Reading or Bishop's Stortford. I had read that the trains can be packed and unreliable, but perhaps not as much of an issue if not doing a regular 9-5 schedule? I am a bit concerned that after covid blows over, companies may decide to largely go back to in-office working and that could mean having to go in regularly, but it seems unlikely. 

    I will try to go to Brighton a few times when it's possible and take a look around. It feels riskier buying somewhere I don't know at all, so will have to do my research on areas and whatnot. I'd want to be close to the main station to reduce having to walk a lot when returning home at night - looks like this should be achievable on my budget. And being right by the sea would be absolutely wonderful! I can just imagine now being able to walk on the beach with a coffee before work...amazing!

    Another concern is I do travel loads for work and leisure (before covid, at least once a month, sometimes up to 3 weekends out of 4), so London has always been extremely handy regarding being able to get to airports and the Eurostar. I have my choice of 4 airports here (City is just a short Uber ride away!) whereas Brighton would limit me to Gatwick (where several airlines have now closed their bases), unless I wanted a very long journey with multiple changes. Perhaps that would be a small price to pay in return for getting a nice flat in a bustling city on the coast? 
  • f1_Fan
    f1_Fan Posts: 19 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts
    f1_Fan said:
    Have you thought about shared ownership ?
    That's what I've done.. in a similar boat as yourself and can't afford anything within the hustle of London and not wanting to be as far out as zone 4, so found the shared ownership scheme. I hoping to move into my 2 bed in Bromley-by-bow. I think the scheme works well in London as there should always be a demand and as long as you know what you're getting into and got the cladding sorted as gives you a chance to get on the ladder... and who knows you may end up being able to staircase to own the full 100%. 
    I would rather avoid shared ownership as I understand it would be much harder, if not impossible, to rent the place out if I had to move, and also harder to sell. It also seems a lot more expensive in the long run, with having to pay rent as well as a hefty mortgage repayment...the places I saw were something like £850 mortgage plus £650 rent, which is unaffordable for me, really. Did you manage to find something cheaper?
    Yup, I hear you. It will be difficult to rent out but not impossible, you would just need an extremely reasonable reason. To sell, I'm not sure as there should always be a demand for housing in London and along as it's central-ish and has the cladding and lease length, I can't see why it wouldn't be attractive to someone. 

    obviously easier said, but if you have the larger deposit it will make things easier. Rent at £650 sounds quite high for SO. you can easily find places below that rate.. say £200-£300 a month. I've managed to find 50% share on £400,000. Hoping to bring a lodger to help with the mortgage payments. Rent at £220 and SC/Ground rent at £280 and then a mortgage for £600, so £1400 or so a month with a lodger at £600 will help a lot with that.

    Not planning to stay for years, probably 2-3 years and get to enjoy London a little bit more with own place and foot on the ladder. 
  • FTB_Help
    FTB_Help Posts: 336 Forumite
    100 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Alan2020 said:
    FTB_Help said:
    Alan2020 said:
    I find this thread comical, in the inner zones of London £300k will buy a flat where you can exist. 
    Many of these people haven’t lived life. It reminds me of someone who asked me to help a friend buy a property mortgage free out of an inheritance. So I found 2 houses one to rent out and the other to live in all bought mortgage free. Anyway this person didn’t like it and asked me to come and view a flat in London. I genuinely feared for my life in this ex la flat, but this person bought it. Absolutely grotty, the irony was she said she loved the London lifestyle- I didn’t want to be cruel and point out she had an existence style.
    Lifestyle in most suburbs of England is something achievable at about an income of £30k as a single person, in London I put it at about £120k

    If anyone sits in the tube and look at peoples eyes, they are all sad - as my friend once eloquently put it, London is the city where dreams are broken 

    Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

    You seem to think the 'London lifestyle' is vapid and grotty, that it's about going to overpriced bars and wasting money. One of the reasons I love London is that I can meet people from all over the world so easily and do just about any hobby I want. Not so easy in a small town. 
    Couldn't agree more with you.
    There are many people that do just "exist" in London, but the same can also be said about the fairytale Surburban life, im sure there are plenty of "happily" married couples with 2 kids a quiet house, garden, shiny car that too also just exist miserably for many years because its easy and "right"

    Just because someone in their 30's enjoys the London city life and can only afford a small flat in London does not mean they have "not lived".
    I might only be 33, but doesnt mean i've spent my life only existing.
    I come from immigrant parents, who moved here at 21, we grew up poorer than poor in a council estate (3 bed 6 kids!) 30 some yrs later theres an Oxford grad, a scientist, a math grad (me) in the family.
    All my siblings live in "grotty" London, we don't just exist, we have seen and experienced hardship and things many people haven't.
    I've travelled to over 20 different countries (and no not staying in an all inclusive resort shovelling chips and beer all day!) whilst holding down a full time job too.

    The main reason why I'm staying in London is because me and my fiance love it here.
    Don't let someone make you feel bad and judge you for the life you have.
    Sorry but you don't have anything to compare, unless I am missing something.
    This website forum is about saving money.  For every level of income you can maximise your "lifestyle"
    Unless you are on high income, London or any big/expensive place isn't maximising it.
    If you go and live outside London, in a few other places, you will realise, that people in London with an income below £100K or so are barely living.  Most people haven't lived outside - by this I mean actually lived, not as a student or on holidays.

    If you have £3K take home and spend £2K on the mortgage you have £1K to live life with
    Or you spend £0.5K on the mortgage and have £2.5K to live with.

    Whilst in your mind travelling to 20 countries is an achievement, to me its a wasted opportunity.  When I lived outside London in my detached house on a salary less than the OP, every Friday I would drive to Gatwick after work and Fly to a new place on a budget airline and be back to work on Monday, and enjoy some fantastic stuff - to me thats lifestyle.  How could I afford it, well my mortage was minuscule compared to my salary.  Mind you I was also saving.  This was in a property that was 100sqm and I could be in London in about 40mins and paying a quarter of the mortgage. 


    I did in no way say me travelling was an achievement.
    On one hand you're saying that was a wasted opportunity then the next saying you fly out every friday, so is that a wasted opportunity too?

    Maximising life is not about what you own or could own.
    For OP time is worth so much more than more living space.
    You sound like you're from an older generation (I'm not saying that to be hurtful) but times have changed, the younger generation value things differently to the older generation.

    Time, culture, enjoyable career,  learning is what the younger generation value, to assume that someone has not lived because they want to stay in big city is just ignorant.
  • RoisinDove
    RoisinDove Posts: 126 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Alan2020 said:
    FTB_Help said:
    Alan2020 said:
    I find this thread comical, in the inner zones of London £300k will buy a flat where you can exist. 
    Many of these people haven’t lived life. It reminds me of someone who asked me to help a friend buy a property mortgage free out of an inheritance. So I found 2 houses one to rent out and the other to live in all bought mortgage free. Anyway this person didn’t like it and asked me to come and view a flat in London. I genuinely feared for my life in this ex la flat, but this person bought it. Absolutely grotty, the irony was she said she loved the London lifestyle- I didn’t want to be cruel and point out she had an existence style.
    Lifestyle in most suburbs of England is something achievable at about an income of £30k as a single person, in London I put it at about £120k

    If anyone sits in the tube and look at peoples eyes, they are all sad - as my friend once eloquently put it, London is the city where dreams are broken 

    Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

    You seem to think the 'London lifestyle' is vapid and grotty, that it's about going to overpriced bars and wasting money. One of the reasons I love London is that I can meet people from all over the world so easily and do just about any hobby I want. Not so easy in a small town. 
    Couldn't agree more with you.
    There are many people that do just "exist" in London, but the same can also be said about the fairytale Surburban life, im sure there are plenty of "happily" married couples with 2 kids a quiet house, garden, shiny car that too also just exist miserably for many years because its easy and "right"

    Just because someone in their 30's enjoys the London city life and can only afford a small flat in London does not mean they have "not lived".
    I might only be 33, but doesnt mean i've spent my life only existing.
    I come from immigrant parents, who moved here at 21, we grew up poorer than poor in a council estate (3 bed 6 kids!) 30 some yrs later theres an Oxford grad, a scientist, a math grad (me) in the family.
    All my siblings live in "grotty" London, we don't just exist, we have seen and experienced hardship and things many people haven't.
    I've travelled to over 20 different countries (and no not staying in an all inclusive resort shovelling chips and beer all day!) whilst holding down a full time job too.

    The main reason why I'm staying in London is because me and my fiance love it here.
    Don't let someone make you feel bad and judge you for the life you have.
    Sorry but you don't have anything to compare, unless I am missing something.
    This website forum is about saving money.  For every level of income you can maximise your "lifestyle"
    Unless you are on high income, London or any big/expensive place isn't maximising it.
    If you go and live outside London, in a few other places, you will realise, that people in London with an income below £100K or so are barely living.  Most people haven't lived outside - by this I mean actually lived, not as a student or on holidays.

    If you have £3K take home and spend £2K on the mortgage you have £1K to live life with
    Or you spend £0.5K on the mortgage and have £2.5K to live with.

    Whilst in your mind travelling to 20 countries is an achievement, to me its a wasted opportunity.  When I lived outside London in my detached house on a salary less than the OP, every Friday I would drive to Gatwick after work and Fly to a new place on a budget airline and be back to work on Monday, and enjoy some fantastic stuff - to me thats lifestyle.  How could I afford it, well my mortage was minuscule compared to my salary.  Mind you I was also saving.  This was in a property that was 100sqm and I could be in London in about 40mins and paying a quarter of the mortgage. 
    I do see your point of view. There is definitely logic in getting a cheap place and having a lower mortgage and people able to spend money on other stuff, and I am still considering this. I just also have to weigh up how moving to another place would change/affect my life. 

    I'm confused about why you assume people who live in London have never lived anywhere else? I grew up in a small town (absolutely hated it) and have lived in several UK towns and cities, as well as living in France, Belgium, Switzerland, Portugal and Spain and having travelled to many other places. I have an enormous amount of life experience and knowledge of other places, and this is true for most people I know here in London. 
  • RoisinDove
    RoisinDove Posts: 126 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Alan2020 said:
    Alan2020 said:
    I find this thread comical, in the inner zones of London £300k will buy a flat where you can exist. 
    Many of these people haven’t lived life. It reminds me of someone who asked me to help a friend buy a property mortgage free out of an inheritance. So I found 2 houses one to rent out and the other to live in all bought mortgage free. Anyway this person didn’t like it and asked me to come and view a flat in London. I genuinely feared for my life in this ex la flat, but this person bought it. Absolutely grotty, the irony was she said she loved the London lifestyle- I didn’t want to be cruel and point out she had an existence style.
    Lifestyle in most suburbs of England is something achievable at about an income of £30k as a single person, in London I put it at about £120k

    If anyone sits in the tube and look at peoples eyes, they are all sad - as my friend once eloquently put it, London is the city where dreams are broken 

    Where do you suggest I live? I have considered other cities, but a life in a small town or suburb would be 'existing' for me. I looked at Crawley at the suggestion of an acquaintance, but what would I do there as a single women with no kids, and no support network nearby? She loves it there because her main social outlet is mum and baby groups, and for 260K she was able to buy a 3-bed semi with a garden for the kids, and her husband can commute to work in London. I agree - I would also like to live there if I were in her position. It's a good place for people with families. I think I would spend all my time going to either London or Brighton, and my lifestyle would be curtailed by having to always worry about train times and the expense of them. 

    You seem to think the 'London lifestyle' is vapid and grotty, that it's about going to overpriced bars and wasting money. One of the reasons I love London is that I can meet people from all over the world so easily and do just about any hobby I want. Not so easy in a small town. 
    I am just sharing my opinion, ultimately its up to you to decide what to do.  You ask for advice mine is;
    Go to potential places have a look at what you can get for your money
    Take a look at this for instance, you could probably get it for £300K if you negotiate a bit
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/84782305#/
    You could leave central London at midnight and be home in  37 minutes and live in a comfortable house, have a car, drive to the woods or take a train to the beach, be at the one of the largest shopping center - bluewater, in the country in several minutes drive.  Right at the doorstep are several pubs and restaurants, you are literally where Charles Dickens spent his life, perhaps go to the museum there.

    Alternatively you can have a small ex la flat, in a grotty neighborhood where if you ever have a child would be difficult to raise.  The only advantage you will get is that you can stay later than midnight/last train time and perhaps save 15minutes on the commute and the possible increase in value if prices go up and you aren't landed massive bills for the leasehold

    If your salary is £120K then London is realistic to have a reasonable home and lifestyle.

    You should go and look at places before you make up your mind, otherwise you don't know what you are missing.   
    I am keeping quite an open mind at the moment. I definitely haven't ruled out living somewhere cheaper than London or Brighton. 
    I feel like your points don't really take into account different preferences or situations...the largest shopping centre in the country is the last place on earth I'd ever want to go, for example. I do like walking in the woods but hardly ideal for a single woman to be tramping around them alone? Would it be easy to meet other people my age there, who weren't settled down with families? 

    I don't think I have a bad lifestyle in London on 55K tbh. I can afford to rent a nice flat alone, get a nice shop in from Ocado, eat out pretty often, go to plays/films/concerts a lot, pop over to Paris on the Eurostar, with St Pancras under 30 mins away from my flat. Is that bad? Obviously I'd prefer to be on 120K and buy in a great area like Richmond where I could get the best of both worlds, but in general I'm happier here than I was living in other places.
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