Buy a flat in London now or wait?

[Deleted User]

Alan2020 said:

RoisinDove said:

Alan2020 said:

Well done on saving and a great pay.  Personally I would not buy a property in London for £280K, you will hate it.
Where do you work in London, then find commutable zone or our of London and buy a freehold house.
Make sure you buy at a minimum 2 double bed, Garden and parking.
You will be better off doubling your efforts in meeting a partner, say if they earn a similar amount then you can sell your house and buy a normal house in London.
Just like anything in life, if you don't put a lot of effort, you won't get a partner, so keep doing that as well.

Thanks for your reply. I see what you mean, but relationships aren't things you can just get in return for effort, like with most other things. Sometimes the harder you 'try', the worse the situation gets. I think people can sniff out desperation and it leads to very bad places. I almost ended up buying with my ex who turned out to be abusive (I left once it became really apparent), and that would have been much worse than any scenario buying alone, I think  

I work quite centrally in London, but won't need to be in every day. Maybe as little as once a week would be OK. The thing is that I don't want to be stuck in a distant suburb with poor transport links or in a small town, as this will be really isolating and make it even harder to meet people. That's why I thought it might be better to just buy a one-bedroom flat somewhere in zone 2 or 3. Is that a really bad idea? My family are saying it will be much easier to rent out a small flat in London proper than a place way out in a commuter town or the countryside.

I know exactly what you mean. 

Look at it this way,
1. Where do you want to be in life in the next 5-10 years. Want to have kids? Then buy a house with a garden in a nice place. You want to party all night and eat takeaways, buy a small flat in a dirty town centre. You can think of other scenarios.
2. It’s highly unlikely you will meet a partner who wants to have kids with in central London but more likely meet a party animal- I am looking at this with your age group.
3. Most people meet their lifelong partners via online dating, mutual interests etc So think very carefully where you want to be.
4. An ex council flat in kenington can be bought, it comes with the risk of huge bills from the council for repairs etc, the real danger of getting killed in a drill music style gangland war.
5. If you have your £280k studio in a Kennington or Lewisham what are the chances you can have kids (assuming you want this) and think of the other half who would want to. On the other hand if you lived in leafy surrey or elsewhere you might meet your perfect match and continue with your life, moving only as you grow.

my view on meeting a partner is you meet someone who is very much like you when you get older (18 year olds have a different life these days) so be that person who you want to be and don’t be pushed by peer pressure. This way you attract a like minded person :-)

A time machine would definitely be be helpful here!

One couple I knew bought a 2-bed ex-council maisonette in Nunhead for around £250k seven years ago.   They did later get a large bill for council maintenance charges, but the house price inflation made it worthwhile.

For about the same price a few years before that (2008-2010 kind of time), another friend bought a 3-bed which was the top half of a stunning Edwardian house in Forest Hill with a large garden.  It would now be £700k.

For OP's budget back then, you could find a well-proportioned, very liveable flat in a leafy locations on the edges of zone 2 and 3.  

I'm not sure what the 2021 equivalent would be, how far out you'd have to go.   But I do agree that properties like the below aren't the best idea, however much you love the chicken and chipboard London lifestyle!:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/87226693#/

Murphybear

I can’t help much with buying a house in London because I haven’t lived there for 25 years but would like to tell you a little tale.  That long ago there were loads of singles groups in London and I joined one.  It was terrific and one year we had a big Christmas house party.  There was one man with whom I got on very well but we didn’t exchange details.  A month later I got a call from the groups organiser asking if he could give this man my phone number.  I said yes and we had a few dates.  6 weeks later we got engaged.  We were both in our 40s.   25 years later we are still engaged and happily retired in beautiful Dorset 

You never know, no matter how old you are, when you will meet Mr or Miss/Mrs Right.  

[Deleted User]

That's a lovely story, Murphybear.  And I'm sure it holds true today that even (especially!) in the centre of London, it's possible to meet people who are looking for a partner with whom they can settle down far away from it all.   The passing of time has that effect on most of us!

steampowered

RoisinDove said:

Why do you say to hold on a year? I thought the stamp duty holiday was finishing in June? I haven't kept up to date with stuff as much as I'd have liked due to life and work being very stressful recently. I do need to look into LISAs as well. I suppose I should get cracking with that given that there's only a month until the end of the tax year! Is that a bonus of 25% for *any* property? It doesn't need to be a new build or anything? Meaning if I put in 4K tomorrow, and another 4K next tax year, the government will give me 2K? Would I still get that money if I bought towards the end of this year, or would I have to wait for the end of the next tax year? Thanks for your help!

Good question. As a first time buyer, you will qualify for first time buyer stamp duty relief. That means you will pay no stamp duty on a property up to £300k. That is separate from the stamp duty holiday and will continue when the stamp duty holiday ends.

So, the stamp duty holiday irrelevant for you. However, the stamp duty holiday has inflated house prices generally, as it has pushed more people onto the market. Most people think that there will be a modest reduction in house prices when the stamp duty holiday ends. 

That's why I think someone in your position would be better off waiting just a few months to see what happens when the stamp duty holiday ends. Even if house prices only drop 2%, that's still £6k off a £300k property.

There is no real reason to think that a London flat would hold its value better than a Brighton flat. In fact, London property prices have under performed the rest of the country for several years now. 

RoisinDove

FTB_Help said:

Im a few years younger than you Rosie.

Me and my fiance are really lucky to be earning fairly well so are able to stay in London (i grew up in Hackney, he grew up in upton park - both areas were horrible 25+ yrs ago) but we both love London and are buying in London (zone 3).

I really cant see myself wanting to leave the city but i see what some posters mean about having kids grow up in certain areas (Kennington isnt the nicest but hey, me and my fiance grew up in similar areas and we turnt out ok!)

There's lots of places in London that arent terrible such as Bermondsey (nx door to London bridge) which is affordable for you.

In terms of meeting someone, maybe you'll get a bigger chance in London as it is a bigger city, not everyone our age are party animals and anyone who assume otherwise probably don't know London well or a much older generation thinking.

People telling you to buy a family home now outside of London, doesn't quiet make sense to me, you've not met a partner yet and family homes are probably best picked out together in an area you both like.

Plus i def recommended you staying near friends/ family.

Most people our age living in London now do want to settle down and raise kids here, not just eat take aways and party!

Jump on a bus during the weekend and visit different parts of London to explore different areas, some may pleasantly surprise you.

Yep indeed...it doesn't seem to make sense to buy something for a lifestyle I 'might' have or want, rather than the one I have now. I imagine it would be much harder to meet people in a small commuter town or village due to far fewer people. I had been looking at places like Reading and villages near it, where I'd be able to get a nice 2-bed flat with parking and outside space, but I think it might impact on my quality of life...I wouldn't want to start thinking 'oh I'd love to go to that show/film/concert, but it would be a hassle to get home late at night' etc. I feel like being in London itself (or Brighton) would make it way easier to meet new people and have an active social life. 

I feel like my budget is maybe that bit too small to get something I really love...I think if I could push it up to 300-325K, I'd have way more to choose from, but then if I wait another year to buy (saving more money and aiming for a small pay rise, maybe), that's another £15,000 or so down the drain on rent. My dad made the point that I've spent the last two years living in a one-bed flat in London, paid £30,000 in rent, and have nothing to show for it. He thinks I should just buy asap and start putting equity into a property I'll own, even if it's not my dream home or anything close. It just feels like such a big step to buy somewhere!

RoisinDove

zagubov said:

I once read one of Danny Dorling's books on social geography in Britain.
IIRC, the ratio of single men to women varied across the UK so that London was the easiest place for a man to find a single woman, and towns and cities in the rest of the UK were the easiest place for women to find single men.

On a more serious note, I can't see houses in London losing serious value in the near future. I'd agree with a small home in a nice area. You just don't get much for your money here. Your pay might be better here than if you had work elsewhere but it's never enough to compensate for the modest quality of life that money can buy you here, especially on one income.

I guess 'quality of life' is subjective. I love doing things like going to the theatre and trying out new restaurants/bars and meeting new people (and dating!) and I feel like all of this would be a lot harder if I went to a smaller town. For example, everyone my age I knew from my hometown is now married with kids, whereas here it's pretty easy to find other single women my age to hang out with and do things with. I love being in nature and whatnot, but there are only so many times you can go for walks alone before it just feels isolating. 

seradane

Only point I'd add OP, if you're concerned about being able to move away/rent it out in future, is just to avoid any shared ownership type offers. They often have restrictions on leasing them out, and that's when people get stuck when life situations change. 

FTB_Help

RoisinDove said:

FTB_Help said:

Im a few years younger than you Rosie.

Me and my fiance are really lucky to be earning fairly well so are able to stay in London (i grew up in Hackney, he grew up in upton park - both areas were horrible 25+ yrs ago) but we both love London and are buying in London (zone 3).

I really cant see myself wanting to leave the city but i see what some posters mean about having kids grow up in certain areas (Kennington isnt the nicest but hey, me and my fiance grew up in similar areas and we turnt out ok!)

There's lots of places in London that arent terrible such as Bermondsey (nx door to London bridge) which is affordable for you.

In terms of meeting someone, maybe you'll get a bigger chance in London as it is a bigger city, not everyone our age are party animals and anyone who assume otherwise probably don't know London well or a much older generation thinking.

People telling you to buy a family home now outside of London, doesn't quiet make sense to me, you've not met a partner yet and family homes are probably best picked out together in an area you both like.

Plus i def recommended you staying near friends/ family.

Most people our age living in London now do want to settle down and raise kids here, not just eat take aways and party!

Jump on a bus during the weekend and visit different parts of London to explore different areas, some may pleasantly surprise you.

Yep indeed...it doesn't seem to make sense to buy something for a lifestyle I 'might' have or want, rather than the one I have now. I imagine it would be much harder to meet people in a small commuter town or village due to far fewer people. I had been looking at places like Reading and villages near it, where I'd be able to get a nice 2-bed flat with parking and outside space, but I think it might impact on my quality of life...I wouldn't want to start thinking 'oh I'd love to go to that show/film/concert, but it would be a hassle to get home late at night' etc. I feel like being in London itself (or Brighton) would make it way easier to meet new people and have an active social life. 

I feel like my budget is maybe that bit too small to get something I really love...I think if I could push it up to 300-325K, I'd have way more to choose from, but then if I wait another year to buy (saving more money and aiming for a small pay rise, maybe), that's another £15,000 or so down the drain on rent. My dad made the point that I've spent the last two years living in a one-bed flat in London, paid £30,000 in rent, and have nothing to show for it. He thinks I should just buy asap and start putting equity into a property I'll own, even if it's not my dream home or anything close. It just feels like such a big step to buy somewhere!

Agreed, your life style sounds just like mine! It seems you love to be able to

-hop on the tube/ Bus on the weekend to an event/ show/ meet up w/ friends/ family and socialise

-be near the hustle and bustle in London

-enjoy the multi culturalness that is London

-be able to be spontaneous and go to that last minute get together with friends after work without dreading that 1.5 hour train home afterwards.

-be close to family/friends

If so i do think London sounds right for you right now, especially if you do want to stick around for 5 yrs.
If you do buy now (probably a 1 bed flat in London) your dad is right, yes you will be putting equity in your own property.

In a few yrs time, you might meet someone and decide its too small for you both, so all you do is sell and buy somewhere bigger together.

I can give some pointers in areas: Bermondsey, Walthamstow, Harringay green lanes, all areas have great travel links, lots of street food stalls and markets in the area and decent high street and should be in your budget.

Keep saving and spend a few hours each weekend in different parts of London to get a feel for the area.

When the SD holiday ends in June (and the tampering in Sept) you might find prices may fall slightly (my speculation)

RoisinDove

steampowered said:

RoisinDove said:

Why do you say to hold on a year? I thought the stamp duty holiday was finishing in June? I haven't kept up to date with stuff as much as I'd have liked due to life and work being very stressful recently. I do need to look into LISAs as well. I suppose I should get cracking with that given that there's only a month until the end of the tax year! Is that a bonus of 25% for *any* property? It doesn't need to be a new build or anything? Meaning if I put in 4K tomorrow, and another 4K next tax year, the government will give me 2K? Would I still get that money if I bought towards the end of this year, or would I have to wait for the end of the next tax year? Thanks for your help!

Good question. As a first time buyer, you will qualify for first time buyer stamp duty relief. That means you will pay no stamp duty on a property up to £300k. That is separate from the stamp duty holiday and will continue when the stamp duty holiday ends.

So, the stamp duty holiday irrelevant for you. However, the stamp duty holiday has inflated house prices generally, as it has pushed more people onto the market. Most people think that there will be a modest reduction in house prices when the stamp duty holiday ends. 

That's why I think someone in your position would be better off waiting just a few months to see what happens when the stamp duty holiday ends. Even if house prices only drop 2%, that's still £6k off a £300k property.

There is no real reason to think that a London flat would hold its value better than a Brighton flat. In fact, London property prices have under performed the rest of the country for several years now. 

Sorry, what I meant was, why would it better to wait a year rather than wait until autumnish this year? I won't have enough deposit until late summer to buy anything anyway. Just thought it would be a good idea to start looking and learning now, seeing what's out there and doing my research. 

numbercruncher8

Something I may have missed, where are you living now and what areas of London do you like?
Two people can live in different places in London and have much different tastes; thus different areas would be suited to them. 

I guess what steampowered is saying, is that once the stamp duty ends, the costs come back in which puts a downward pressure on prices as people then have a large up front cost. This may or may not happen. By going early you miss out the chance of prices falling, but the flip side of that is that you are also insulated from further price rises. But that has not been the trend in London for a while.