BW Legal/ Premier Parking Solutions (4 year old ticket, first I knew of it was court letter!)

0james0

So these cowboys are at it again, I have had a previous run in with them back in December 2019, I actually ended up attending the small claims court for the hearing, with help and support of people in this forum, but sadly, I lost, not because my evidence was not solid, but just because the hearing was a farce, the judge did not even look at any of my evidence, or let me speak, he rushed it through faster than an Aldi checkout operator in rush hour and that was it, done and lost. 

I received a new claim form from Northampton Court, telling me that BW Legal are taking me to court, on behalf of Premier Parking Solutions, for an offence dated 04/12/2016. I replied to the court using their online form the next day. I said I wished to defend my claim, on the basis that I had no idea what it was about, it was the first I had heard of it and in order for me to see if it was something I was either liable for, or wished to defend, I would like to see what evidence there is of the offence, I also commented that as it was so long ago, I do not even know if I was the driver at the time, but if they would be kind enough to provide evidence of the claim, then I am sure their evidence will show me who was driving the car when the alleged offence happened. 
The court have replied, with the Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track letter. Arrived today, dated 1st March, I have until 18th March to respond. 

I am looking for confirmation from you guys please, of just what I should do next. I have spoken with BW Legal via livechat and asked why they did not bring this matter to my attention until now, or even deal with it at the same time as when we were last in court together with the same client, they simply said each case is dealt with individually. 

BW Legal have acknowledged my defence, but only to say they intend on proceeding anyway. They have not yet provided any of their evidence to me. I have spoken with them today on Livechat and requested the evidence bundle, which I should hopefully have tomorrow. My concern, stems from the previous bad experience. Their evidence in that case was pictures taken at 2am, where the private parking sign was hidden by darkness, then some pictures of other cars parked there during the day. It was such poor evidence of the offence and they had failed so many things, yet the judge still decided in their favour without even reading my evidence bundle. So I am reluctant for it to go to the small claims court again. 

So, do I complete form N180 and say I do not want it to go to the small claims court in that form? 
Do I have any weight to my defence this time? I genuinely have not heard anything until now, but I had the same problem before, no letters received, but they did not even need to provide proof of postage, simply proof the letters had been generated by their system, which apparently counts as being posted to the court. But the fact we have been to court about another parking matter with the same client of theirs and they did not deal with it, does that count for anything?
Or the fact the alleged offence is over 4 years old and it's unlikely the driver can be identified by their pictures?
Or possibly even the fact the balance now due is £265.54, of which BW Legal have contributed:

N/A £30.54 Interest

07/02/2021 £50.00 Fixed Costs on Claim

07/02/2021 £25.00 CPC Claim Issue Fee

27/11/2018 £60.00 Receipt of Instruction Fee

Any thoughts and advice would be much appreciated 

D_P_Dance

I am not sure what the receipt of instruction fee is but it looks dodgy.  Also, they might struggle getting the interest  if you did not receive the original PCN four years ago  I suspect wrongdoing, complain to your MP and read this,

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

..

nosferatu1001

Ouch., That is not a great defence
Sorry,m but you should have used the templatre here. You will not get a chance to amend that defence, so you need to carry on with what you entered. 

Yes, of course you agree to small claims. WHat reason do you have for it to be on fast or multitrack?!

Do you know if they complied with POFA? If they DID, then they can hold you as keeper liable  if they dont know who the driver was. Why did you not see the NtK? Wrong address on the V5c?

Redx

Because you have already filled in your Defence , Without our assistance , I don't see how we can help until the WS plus Exhibits plus summary costs assessment stage in several months time

Post a copy of your submitted defence below because it sounds extremely poor to me based on your post above

All that PPS have to show is that they posted letters to the registered keeper at the time , by obtaining that data from the DVLA , something they do daily

If the DVLA database details were incorrect or not up to date , that is your fault , not theirs

The DVLA can fine you up to £1000 for not keeping those details up to date

So lack of correspondence is usually the keeper's fault

0james0

nosferatu1001 said:

Ouch., That is not a great defence
Sorry,m but you should have used the templatre here. You will not get a chance to amend that defence, so you need to carry on with what you entered. 

Yes, of course you agree to small claims. WHat reason do you have for it to be on fast or multitrack?!

Do you know if they complied with POFA? If they DID, then they can hold you as keeper liable  if they dont know who the driver was. Why did you not see the NtK? Wrong address on the V5c?

Redx said:

Because you have already filled in your Defence , Without our assistance , I don't see how we can help until the WS plus Exhibits plus summary costs assessment stage in several months time

Post a copy of your submitted defence below because it sounds extremely poor to me based on your post above

All that PPS have to show is that they posted letters to the registered keeper at the time , by obtaining that data from the DVLA , something they do daily

If the DVLA database details were incorrect or not up to date , that is your fault , not theirs

The DVLA can fine you up to £1000 for not keeping those details up to date

So lack of correspondence is usually the keeper's fault

I have not moved home for over 10 years, this offence happened 4 years ago. The registered keeper details were correct and all of my details are correct with the DVLA, so I have no idea why I've not had anything from them until now. Until they send me their evidence bundle, which has been like getting blood from a stone, I have no idea what the offence even was for, let alone if they followed the correct process with the NTO and other time scales. 

I've clearly made a massive mistake in filling the defence the way I did, BW Legal would not give me any details of the offence, they insinuated now it was at court, it needed to be dealt with through the court, I was conscious I was going to run out of time to respond to the court, so in my stupidity, I thought requesting details of what I was defending as part of my defence was a good idea. Obviously it was not. 

My defence statement says:
I have no idea what this alleged offence is even about. I have received no documents from the claimant to show me what the alleged offence even was. This alleged offence happened over 4 years ago, I have no recollection of the event, or even if I was the driver of the car at that time. Maybe if the claimant could provide photographic evidence to me of the alleged offence, I could then identify if the offence even took place and also if I was the driver of the vehicle.

I fail to see how an offence such as this, can go without contact for 4 years, then the first I hear of it is now, when it is going to court. I have also had other dealings with BW legal within the last 4 years, having paid them money for another parking offence which went to court. They should even be able to pull off a recorded call where I asked one of their team on the phone if we were now all square and paid up and that I had no other outstanding fines. They advised I had no others outstanding, then this comes along many months later. Given that it has taken 4 years for this matter to be brought to my attention and then to court, I have serious doubts that the correct processes have been followed since the very start of this alleged PCN being issued.

Before I can even discuss this case in any detail, I need to see the full evidence bundle from the claimant, so I know exactly what I am defending and also proof that I was the driver of the car for the alleged offence, if indeed an offence even did occur. 

Redx

Assuming that you have read the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum , you know that you should email a SAR to the DPO at PPS to obtain all your data , including copies of all missing correspondence from them to you , do it asap , attaching a copy of the V5C or court claim form as proof of I D under the GDPR law. This may assist you in missing letters etc

So the SAR should have been done asap and then the AOS and then adapting the template defence. But it's too late for the last 2 as it's already been done

nosferatu1001

No such thing as a Notice to OWNER, that is for council tickets only. PPC may only issue NtD and NTK / Hirer. Nothing else. 
A defence is a series of legal arguments as to why you are not liable, and has to accept deny or put them to proof of their claims. 

You didnt do that, and the template defence takes 30 min to alter. That's all. You are now stuck with the above. That is all you have to work with

Show us the DOC REF date on ytour V5c. Exact date. Dont guess. It is the date at the bottom which shows when they updatred their records. 

It has never been an offence. its an allkeged breach of contract. Civil law. Nothing more. 

0james0

Redx said:

Assuming that you have read the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum , you know that you should email a SAR to the DPO at PPS to obtain all your data , including copies of all missing correspondence from them to you , do it asap , attaching a copy of the V5C or court claim form as proof of I D under the GDPR law. This may assist you in missing letters etc

So the SAR should have been done asap and then the AOS and then adapting the template defence. But it's too late for the last 2 as it's already been done

I have done the SAR to BW Legal, but not PPS, I must have mis-read the newbie sticky, obviously wish I read it before even doing my defence, but here we are. 

I'll do that now, thank you again for your help.

0james0

nosferatu1001 said:

No such thing as a Notice to OWNER, that is for council tickets only. PPC may only issue NtD and NTK / Hirer. Nothing else. 
A defence is a series of legal arguments as to why you are not liable, and has to accept deny or put them to proof of their claims. 

You didnt do that, and the template defence takes 30 min to alter. That's all. You are now stuck with the above. That is all you have to work with

Show us the DOC REF date on ytour V5c. Exact date. Dont guess. It is the date at the bottom which shows when they updatred their records. 

It has never been an offence. its an allkeged breach of contract. Civil law. Nothing more. 

I don't even own that car any longer, it was sold about 2 months after the ticket was issued, so I would not know where the V5c is now. I have had multiple other cars since then. 

I wish I had visited this forum and read the sticky before giving my defence, or doing anything, I really do. 

Redx

0james0 said:

Redx said:

Assuming that you have read the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum , you know that you should email a SAR to the DPO at PPS to obtain all your data , including copies of all missing correspondence from them to you , do it asap , attaching a copy of the V5C or court claim form as proof of I D under the GDPR law. This may assist you in missing letters etc

So the SAR should have been done asap and then the AOS and then adapting the template defence. But it's too late for the last 2 as it's already been done

I have done the SAR to BW Legal, but not PPS, I must have mis-read the newbie sticky, obviously wish I read it before even doing my defence, but here we are. 

I'll do that now, thank you again for your help.

B w legal may not have much or share it due to the ongoing court case , but read any thread on here about an LBC or a court claim and the common reply is to email a SAR to the DPO at the PPC asap ( not the legal eagles ) , I have put that in dozens or hundreds of my replies on here

All the evidence comes at the witness statement plus exhibits plus the summary costs assessment stage in several months time

Coupon-mad

I received a new claim form from Northampton Court, telling me that BW Legal are taking me to court, on behalf of Premier Parking Solutions, for an offence dated 04/12/2016. I replied to the court using their online form the next day. I said I wished to defend my claim, on the basis that I had no idea what it was about, it was the first I had heard of it and in order for me to see if it was something I was either liable for, or wished to defend, I would like to see what evidence there is of the offence, I also commented that as it was so long ago, I do not even know if I was the driver at the time, but if they would be kind enough to provide evidence of the claim, then I am sure their evidence will show me who was driving the car when the alleged offence happened. 

You rushed to file a self-written 'defence' of sorts (which isn't a defence to any of the allegations) and only then came here? 

Oh dear.  Sorry.   So the above is all you have as a defence.  All you can do is try to rescue it later at WS and hearing stage. 

What a mess. That's not a defence.  Best of luck is all I can say, start reading what you should have done and try to paper over the cracks at WS stage.