Inherited house & family

RAS

Keep the house in mum's name.

Essentially you have a situation where the administrator has failed to distribute the estate in line with the rules of intestacy.

This may suit your sister but it is a dereliction of the administrator's duty to the joint beneficiary. The fact that both the administrator and joint beneficiary happen to share the same physical body does alter the fact that legally they are separate entities.

Having failed to distribute the estate, the administrator can ask a solicitor to help achieve it.

I'd suggest you start a broken record system with your father. "Having failed to distribute the estate, as administrator, I've had to put the matter in the hands of a solicitor. They are dealing with it now."  OK, the solicitors will do what you ask them, but it does take some of the emotion out of the situation.

Go "see" a good probate solicitor and get advice. As said, I think you should write to your sister warning her that legal action will commence shortly if there is any further delay in selling the house, two copies sent first class with proof of posting. Legally, it's assumed that one letter might go astray, but not two. So for a couple of quid, you have evidence of an attempt to resolve amicably.

Set out a clear timetable; a fortnight to get three estate agents' valuation. You to choose which as you are still the administrator, sale board up within a month. Signed agreement (definitely get the lawyer to sort that out) to move out before exchange. Your dad can loan her the deposit for a 6 month rental if necessary. Or she can start house-hunting and hope for exchange and completion on the same day.

Remind her that the legal costs will come from the estate, not you. OK, if she's really stupid, she could fight and neither of you get anything but....

You also need to make up the accounts so that it's clear what has been paid by yourself, what money your sister has actually paid towards the 'private mortgage' and any other old costs of administering the estate. Otherwise, the lawyer can't sort out the distribution. 

At the moment, I wouldn't ask for rent because being a landlord, even a half one, has legal implications. And you need to learn about that before taking the role. But you might talk to the lawyer about giving her notice that she'll be paying half the commercial rent if the situation continues beyond a set date, to give her an incentive to get the sale completed.

Keep_pedalling

RAS said:

Keep the house in mum's name.

Essentially you have a situation where the administrator has failed to distribute the estate in line with the rules of intestacy.

This may suit your sister but it is a dereliction of the administrator's duty to the joint beneficiary. The fact that both the administrator and joint beneficiary happen to share the same physical body does alter the fact that legally they are separate entities.

Having failed to distribute the estate, the administrator can ask a solicitor to help achieve it.

I'd suggest you start a broken record system with your father. "Having failed to distribute the estate, as administrator, I've had to put the matter in the hands of a solicitor. They are dealing with it now."  OK, the solicitors will do what you ask them, but it does take some of the emotion out of the situation.

Go "see" a good probate solicitor and get advice. As said, I think you should write to your sister warning her that legal action will commence shortly if there is any further delay in selling the house, two copies sent first class with proof of posting. Legally, it's assumed that one letter might go astray, but not two. So for a couple of quid, you have evidence of an attempt to resolve amicably.

Set out a clear timetable; a fortnight to get three estate agents' valuation. You to choose which as you are still the administrator, sale board up within a month. Signed agreement (definitely get the lawyer to sort that out) to move out before exchange. Your dad can loan her the deposit for a 6 month rental if necessary. Or she can start house-hunting and hope for exchange and completion on the same day.

Remind her that the legal costs will come from the estate, not you. OK, if she's really stupid, she could fight and neither of you get anything but....

You also need to make up the accounts so that it's clear what has been paid by yourself, what money your sister has actually paid towards the 'private mortgage' and any other old costs of administering the estate. Otherwise, the lawyer can't sort out the distribution. 

At the moment, I wouldn't ask for rent because being a landlord, even a half one, has legal implications. And you need to learn about that before taking the role. But you might talk to the lawyer about giving her notice that she'll be paying half the commercial rent if the situation continues beyond a set date, to give her an incentive to get the sale completed.

The OP would have made a terrible mistake transferring the house to the beneficiaries names as that would have left them having to deal with a forced sale. As it stands the estate is already in the position of being a landlord, even though no rent is being paid.

I would suggest posting over on the House Buying, renting & selling board about the correct way to proceed with eviction.

Jinnydr21

RAS said:

Keep the house in mum's name.

Essentially you have a situation where the administrator has failed to distribute the estate in line with the rules of intestacy.

This may suit your sister but it is a dereliction of the administrator's duty to the joint beneficiary. The fact that both the administrator and joint beneficiary happen to share the same physical body does alter the fact that legally they are separate entities.

Having failed to distribute the estate, the administrator can ask a solicitor to help achieve it.

I'd suggest you start a broken record system with your father. "Having failed to distribute the estate, as administrator, I've had to put the matter in the hands of a solicitor. They are dealing with it now."  OK, the solicitors will do what you ask them, but it does take some of the emotion out of the situation.

Go "see" a good probate solicitor and get advice. As said, I think you should write to your sister warning her that legal action will commence shortly if there is any further delay in selling the house, two copies sent first class with proof of posting. Legally, it's assumed that one letter might go astray, but not two. So for a couple of quid, you have evidence of an attempt to resolve amicably.

Set out a clear timetable; a fortnight to get three estate agents' valuation. You to choose which as you are still the administrator, sale board up within a month. Signed agreement (definitely get the lawyer to sort that out) to move out before exchange. Your dad can loan her the deposit for a 6 month rental if necessary. Or she can start house-hunting and hope for exchange and completion on the same day.

Remind her that the legal costs will come from the estate, not you. OK, if she's really stupid, she could fight and neither of you get anything but....

You also need to make up the accounts so that it's clear what has been paid by yourself, what money your sister has actually paid towards the 'private mortgage' and any other old costs of administering the estate. Otherwise, the lawyer can't sort out the distribution. 

At the moment, I wouldn't ask for rent because being a landlord, even a half one, has legal implications. And you need to learn about that before taking the role. But you might talk to the lawyer about giving her notice that she'll be paying half the commercial rent if the situation continues beyond a set date, to give her an incentive to get the sale completed.

Thank you so much for this. It is greatly appreciated. At the risk of asking a daft question, do you think there could be any implications of her having lived there (sitting on it) for a sustained period? (i.e. claiming entitlement to it) 

RAS

Again, you might be better asking that on the House Buying, Renting and Selling forum. Although, expect some debate. It would at least give you clues as to what you need to ask a lawyer.

Your sister MIGHT try and claim that she was dependent on her mother, but I can't see that really having much merit, more a smokescreen that she'd use to deter you. And anyway, there is a time limit within which that has to be claimed and I think that is 2 years. Sounds like she outside that now. 

Just be mindful that if she is a tenant (and I'm not absolutely sure of her status), eviction at the moment takes a lot longer. I'd make sure that you clarify her status promptly. 

Otherwise the delay does not seem to grant her enhanced status as such, it just makes her expectations more unreasonable as time goes on.

What you will need though is documented evidence to show how it was the administrator made the agreement to sell the portion of one beneficiary to the other, what that agreement was and that your sister has not kept her side of the bargain.

Mickey666

Keep_pedalling said:

RAS said:

Keep the house in mum's name.

Essentially you have a situation where the administrator has failed to distribute the estate in line with the rules of intestacy.

This may suit your sister but it is a dereliction of the administrator's duty to the joint beneficiary. The fact that both the administrator and joint beneficiary happen to share the same physical body does alter the fact that legally they are separate entities.

Having failed to distribute the estate, the administrator can ask a solicitor to help achieve it.

I'd suggest you start a broken record system with your father. "Having failed to distribute the estate, as administrator, I've had to put the matter in the hands of a solicitor. They are dealing with it now."  OK, the solicitors will do what you ask them, but it does take some of the emotion out of the situation.

Go "see" a good probate solicitor and get advice. As said, I think you should write to your sister warning her that legal action will commence shortly if there is any further delay in selling the house, two copies sent first class with proof of posting. Legally, it's assumed that one letter might go astray, but not two. So for a couple of quid, you have evidence of an attempt to resolve amicably.

Set out a clear timetable; a fortnight to get three estate agents' valuation. You to choose which as you are still the administrator, sale board up within a month. Signed agreement (definitely get the lawyer to sort that out) to move out before exchange. Your dad can loan her the deposit for a 6 month rental if necessary. Or she can start house-hunting and hope for exchange and completion on the same day.

Remind her that the legal costs will come from the estate, not you. OK, if she's really stupid, she could fight and neither of you get anything but....

You also need to make up the accounts so that it's clear what has been paid by yourself, what money your sister has actually paid towards the 'private mortgage' and any other old costs of administering the estate. Otherwise, the lawyer can't sort out the distribution. 

At the moment, I wouldn't ask for rent because being a landlord, even a half one, has legal implications. And you need to learn about that before taking the role. But you might talk to the lawyer about giving her notice that she'll be paying half the commercial rent if the situation continues beyond a set date, to give her an incentive to get the sale completed.

The OP would have made a terrible mistake transferring the house to the beneficiaries names as that would have left them having to deal with a forced sale. As it stands the estate is already in the position of being a landlord, even though no rent is being paid.

I would suggest posting over on the House Buying, renting & selling board about the correct way to proceed with eviction.

If there is no permission for the sibling to be living in the house isn't it more of a squatting situation than a landlord issue, or does illegal squatting automatically mean an unfortunate property owner who does not want the squatters in the first place can be forced to take on the legal responsibilities of a landlord?

Jinnydr21

I think where it’s become particularly messy for me is giving the opportunity for them to try to buy me out. Which they initially did start, but as I’ve found out it must be in a year now since there have been any payment. It wasn’t documented legally so that amongst other things is what I will need to obtain clarity on.

Keep_pedalling

Mickey666 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

RAS said:

Keep the house in mum's name.

Essentially you have a situation where the administrator has failed to distribute the estate in line with the rules of intestacy.

This may suit your sister but it is a dereliction of the administrator's duty to the joint beneficiary. The fact that both the administrator and joint beneficiary happen to share the same physical body does alter the fact that legally they are separate entities.

Having failed to distribute the estate, the administrator can ask a solicitor to help achieve it.

I'd suggest you start a broken record system with your father. "Having failed to distribute the estate, as administrator, I've had to put the matter in the hands of a solicitor. They are dealing with it now."  OK, the solicitors will do what you ask them, but it does take some of the emotion out of the situation.

Go "see" a good probate solicitor and get advice. As said, I think you should write to your sister warning her that legal action will commence shortly if there is any further delay in selling the house, two copies sent first class with proof of posting. Legally, it's assumed that one letter might go astray, but not two. So for a couple of quid, you have evidence of an attempt to resolve amicably.

Set out a clear timetable; a fortnight to get three estate agents' valuation. You to choose which as you are still the administrator, sale board up within a month. Signed agreement (definitely get the lawyer to sort that out) to move out before exchange. Your dad can loan her the deposit for a 6 month rental if necessary. Or she can start house-hunting and hope for exchange and completion on the same day.

Remind her that the legal costs will come from the estate, not you. OK, if she's really stupid, she could fight and neither of you get anything but....

You also need to make up the accounts so that it's clear what has been paid by yourself, what money your sister has actually paid towards the 'private mortgage' and any other old costs of administering the estate. Otherwise, the lawyer can't sort out the distribution. 

At the moment, I wouldn't ask for rent because being a landlord, even a half one, has legal implications. And you need to learn about that before taking the role. But you might talk to the lawyer about giving her notice that she'll be paying half the commercial rent if the situation continues beyond a set date, to give her an incentive to get the sale completed.

The OP would have made a terrible mistake transferring the house to the beneficiaries names as that would have left them having to deal with a forced sale. As it stands the estate is already in the position of being a landlord, even though no rent is being paid.

I would suggest posting over on the House Buying, renting & selling board about the correct way to proceed with eviction.

If there is no permission for the sibling to be living in the house isn't it more of a squatting situation than a landlord issue, or does illegal squatting automatically mean an unfortunate property owner who does not want the squatters in the first place can be forced to take on the legal responsibilities of a landlord?

They were living there with permission of the deceased so I don’t think they can be describes as squatters. The law is quite complicated when it comes to eviction and it has to be done by the book, who’s is why I suggested posting on the board where there is more expertise on these complications.

TBagpuss

Talk to a solicitor - they should be able to advise you, in your capacity as Administrator. 

Give them full details, including the fact that you offered your sister the opportunity to buy your share and that she mae a small number of payments but did not keep them up and there was no formal agreement.

I would recommend that you shop around and chose a firm where the firm deal with both contentious and non-contentious probate, that way if you do end up having to fore a sale they should be able to deal with the whole issue. 

It sounds as though you have bent over backwards to try to accommodate your sister and have given her every opportunity to work things out, she may well try to present it as you being unreasonable or forcing her (and her children ) out but the reality is that you have effectively loaned her your inheritance for a couple of years already, and if she, or any family members , try to tell you you're being unfair or unkind, remind them of that . Maybe even think of a form of words you can use in advance so you are not blindsided (e.g. "I have a legal duty to distribute mum's estate which means that the house has to be sold. I did delay for two years, during which time I've  let sister live rent-free in my share of the house, and I've given her the option of buying my share if she wants to stay, but she hasn't. Unfortunately we've run out of options so the house has to be sold."  And if she / they continue to push or to criticize you you could add something like "You're telling me I should give sister my inheritance and be left with nothing? I'm not in a position to do that, and I am sure that sister wouldn't be so greedy or unfair as to expect it."

While it is not up to you, you could also consider whether to suggest to your sister that she look into whether she might be able to use her share of the sale proceeds to buy a shared ownership property, if she can't get a mortgage to buy conventionally.

Jinnydr21

TBagpuss said:

Talk to a solicitor - they should be able to advise you, in your capacity as Administrator. 

Give them full details, including the fact that you offered your sister the opportunity to buy your share and that she mae a small number of payments but did not keep them up and there was no formal agreement.

I would recommend that you shop around and chose a firm where the firm deal with both contentious and non-contentious probate, that way if you do end up having to fore a sale they should be able to deal with the whole issue. 

It sounds as though you have bent over backwards to try to accommodate your sister and have given her every opportunity to work things out, she may well try to present it as you being unreasonable or forcing her (and her children ) out but the reality is that you have effectively loaned her your inheritance for a couple of years already, and if she, or any family members , try to tell you you're being unfair or unkind, remind them of that . Maybe even think of a form of words you can use in advance so you are not blindsided (e.g. "I have a legal duty to distribute mum's estate which means that the house has to be sold. I did delay for two years, during which time I've  let sister live rent-free in my share of the house, and I've given her the option of buying my share if she wants to stay, but she hasn't. Unfortunately we've run out of options so the house has to be sold."  And if she / they continue to push or to criticize you you could add something like "You're telling me I should give sister my inheritance and be left with nothing? I'm not in a position to do that, and I am sure that sister wouldn't be so greedy or unfair as to expect it."

While it is not up to you, you could also consider whether to suggest to your sister that she look into whether she might be able to use her share of the sale proceeds to buy a shared ownership property, if she can't get a mortgage to buy conventionally.

Thanks so much for the advice. I have made an appointment for later this week with a solicitor so hopefully it goes well. Will post an update..

badmemory

Of course you could really upset them all & say that as your financial circumstances have changed you will need to join them in the property unless you had your share out of it to provide you with alternative accomodation.  Now that would set the cat among the pigeons!