Bought A Van For My Business.....

slapbang80

Hi,
I was wondering if there are any legal eagles on here who can offer any kind of advise regarding my predicament...
I own a small business and decided last February to buy a van for the business...the first of many I hoped!  All was well but then a few niggling faults decided to rear their heads. If you are sitting comfortably, I shall start from the beginnning.... When I purchased the van, I was told by the garage that the finance company wouldnt accept me for whatever reason -  a way around this was to "tell" the finance company that I had a larger deposit, when I didnt - I would still pay the same and everything would work out the same.  I thought this was a little dodge but it got me a van for the business, I paid the amount each month that the business could afford so everyones a winner.  They told the finance company that I paid £2000 when infact I paid £200.  I have a receipt to say exactly what I did pay - the finance company thought I paid £2000.....confused yet?
Anyway, the van was bought from a garage 100-odd miles away from my house and I paid for 12 months "gold" (and I use that terms very loosely) warranty cover.  Within a day I discovered that the left hand indicator didnt cancel itself, more of an annoyance but a fault none the less. I was told by the dealer to call the warranty.  When I finally came to getting it priced up, I was told by the warranty company that electrical issues were not covered...no biggy - I can live with it.  The next thing was after 6 months and 8000 miles thanks to COVID was that I noticed a leakage of coolant fluid and the engine overheating.  Again I contacted the warranty who told me to get it priced up.  It turns out that someone had put rad-seal (confirmed by mechanic, not me) into the coolant tank in an apparent attempt to disguise the leak.  This lead to the van needing an EGR bypass in order to fix it.  It was touch and go as to whether it would be the head that was shot which would have been even more disasterous.
Everything was fine for another 3/4 months until I was told by my mechanic that the clutch was wearing, they noticed it slipping/chugging at certain speeds apparently.  Then last month the starter motor went on it, completely out of the blue.  Again, in come the warranty company and I sent it in for repair - its worth pointing out that the warranty company only cover part of the claim, their prices and how ever long it takes according to "the book".  Literally a week after it had a replacement starter motor and sounded like a car being started as opposed to a huge bulky van, I noticed a whistling noise when I was driving down the road...no exageration, within 5 minutes there was clunking, grinding and a host of noises akin to a van screaming in agony - if you can imagine.  The vehicle was recovered, thanks to the gold warranty I have back home to the garage where they diagnosed not only has the clutch gone but also now the gear box, the fly-wheel and basically any hope of me not having to sell my own kidneys in order to pay for the fix.......£3000 plus to get it fixed, on a 15 plate van worth £5000 at best.
Now, the point of this waffling post is that I am stuck with a van, on finance - only a year into the agreement, that is basically as expensive ornament.  I have spoken to the finance company as to options, to which they reply that I have to take the van, you know the afore mentioned beast of a van that doesnt drive, to a vat registered garage to be inspected.  In order to have any claim, I/they have to prove that the vehicle had an underlying problem when I purchased it - how in gods name am I going to prove that?? Ive done 20000-odd miles in it, it has 108k on the clock.  How on earth can I get around this as I feel like there are a queue of people waiting to screw me over, beit the original garage, the warranty company or the finance company - I am stuck with this van and being rinsed by hire companies to get my work done.
This was meant to be the start of something special, an investment for my own little business and to build something for the future, its now in tatters.  The finance company gave me the option to pay £2100 to make it up to half of the finance and then I can give the vehicle back - however I believe that I would still need to repair it as it would need to be in a suitable condition to give back.  Either way, I seem to be well and truly up the creek.
Another problem I have is that in June/July last year paid nearly £1000 to have the van sign-written so thats even more money that I have lost.
Can anyone offer me even a glimmer of hope to get something out of this that doesnt cost me the earth?  I feel that even repairing the van (with the money from the money tree at the bottom of the garden everyone has) what if something else goes wrong?  Where do I stop?
In my opinion the finance company financed a vehicle that they saw fit for purpose, the warranty company covered the vehicle that they saw as fit for purpose and it turns out it wasnt - I understand that things go wrong but for it to happen in the first year and for the repairs to cost pretty much what the van is worth it seems ridiculous
Any help or views appreciated
Cheers

Grumpy_chap

That is a very difficult post to read and I can't really keep track of what has / has not been spent or what the status of the van is now, or the finance, or the warranty.

I don't understand the "little dodge" with the van to get you the finance.  Are you saying that you purchased a van for (example) £7,200 of which £200 was deposit and £7k finance, yet the garage stated you had purchased a van for £9k of which £2k deposit and £7k finance?

That does not sound like a "little dodge" to me but sounds like a "scam" at the finance companies expense to which you were, at best, complicit.

I hate to state the obvious but, if the garage was willing to "scam" the finance company, why do you think they would treat you with better integrity concerning the state of the van and the quality of the warranty?

I am not a "legal eagle" and cannot advise in that regard but, given the "little dodge" played on the finance company, I very much doubt you stand any chance of getting anything from the dealer (even if you won a legal case I doubt you'd get the money). 

The warranty is probably less use than a chocolate tea-pot. 

So that only leaves you with options to exit the finance arrangement and dispose of the van in the lowest-cost and least effort way.  Given the discrepancies in the paperwork, any legal steps in that regard could well back-fire so the only thing I can suggest is to exit in the ways the finance company permit and not arose their attention.

You did not say whether you have Ltd Co or sole trader - did you get any grants, either CJRS or SEISS?  Have you taken a BBLS - that could be an option to borrow and clear the finance and resolve the operation of the van or, indeed, finance a new van so that the business can bounce-back as soon as all these restrictions go away.

Sorry I have not been much help.  My final suggestion is that this thread may be better suited to the Motoring Forum if you ask a moderator to move it for you.

slapbang80

Thanks for your reply, yeah I can understand that it's a bit confusing, apologies for that. Yes according to the finance co the van was £9795 and I put down a £2000 deposit.  When infact the cost (and it states on my receipt) that the van was £7995 and I put down a £200 deposit! Il be honest I thought nothing of it when he explained it as I had my receipt which stated what I had paid and allow any good. It was only in the days after I wondered if it was all compliant....to be honest if the van wasn't knackered I wouldn't really be bothered!
In answer to your question, business is a limited company with a BBL already 

Grumpy_chap

Ask a moderator to move this thread to the motoring forum for better advice.

MSE_ForumTeam5

We've moved this to the Motoring board.

williamgriffin

After 20,000 miles there's no way the clutch and gearbox were defective when you bought it. 

Car_54

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't understand the "little dodge" with the van to get you the finance.  Are you saying that you purchased a van for (example) £7,200 of which £200 was deposit and £7k finance, yet the garage stated you had purchased a van for £9k of which £2k deposit and £7k finance?

That does not sound like a "little dodge" to me but sounds like a "scam" at the finance companies expense to which you were, at best, complicit.

No, it sounds like "fraud". And indeed conspiracy to commit fraud.

AdrianC

slapbang80 said:

I own a small business and decided last February

Feb 2020?

...to buy a van for the business...

Ah. If we can just stop you there...
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 does not apply to business purchases.
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 does, still, but is a lot less "friendly" and easy to get anywhere with.

When I purchased the van, I was told by the garage that the finance company wouldnt accept me for whatever reason -  a way around this was to "tell" the finance company that I had a larger deposit, when I didnt - I would still pay the same and everything would work out the same.  I thought this was a little dodge but it got me a van for the business, I paid the amount each month that the business could afford so everyones a winner.  They told the finance company that I paid £2000 when infact I paid £200.  I have a receipt to say exactly what I did pay - the finance company thought I paid £2000.....confused yet?

And, at the garage's suggestion, you lied to the financier on the application about the total purchase price, by the £1,800 difference...

Anyway, the van was bought from a garage 100-odd miles away from my house and I paid for 12 months "gold" (and I use that terms very loosely) warranty cover. ...

Short version of list of problems...
Feb 2020 - LH indicator wouldn't self-cancel - warranty won't cover.
Aug 2020 - coolant leak - turns out to be EGR leaking, warranty paid part.
Aug 2020 - starter motor failed - no mention of warranty, but presume paid? (Damaged by leaking coolant?)
Nov 2020 - warned clutch on way out - ignored.
Feb 2021 - clutch now failed, taking gearbox and DMF with it.

Now, the point of this waffling post is that I am stuck with a van, on finance - only a year into the agreement, that is basically as expensive ornament.  I have spoken to the finance company as to options, to which they reply that I have to take the van, you know the afore mentioned beast of a van that doesnt drive, to a vat registered garage to be inspected.  In order to have any claim, I/they have to prove that the vehicle had an underlying problem when I purchased it - how in gods name am I going to prove that?? Ive done 20000-odd miles in it, it has 108k on the clock.

Simple. You aren't.

Ultimately, It's a 6yo, 110k van - and you've covered 20k in it in a year. That suggests the problems were not pre-existing.
All the issues you list are basically wear and tear on a vehicle of that age and mileage.

When you bought the van, you lied to the financier to be accepted for finance they would not have given you if they'd known the true position. That could easily be perceived as fraud.

So what do you do?
Even ignoring the cost of buying a replacement van, the cost of giving this back to the financier and sign-writing the replacement will cost the same as fixing this one.

How much money are you spending on hiring vans...?

Grumpy_chap

Car_54 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't understand the "little dodge" with the van to get you the finance.  Are you saying that you purchased a van for (example) £7,200 of which £200 was deposit and £7k finance, yet the garage stated you had purchased a van for £9k of which £2k deposit and £7k finance?

That does not sound like a "little dodge" to me but sounds like a "scam" at the finance companies expense to which you were, at best, complicit.

No, it sounds like "fraud". And indeed conspiracy to commit fraud.

I didn't use that word because last time I did, I got a yellow card.  No calling a spade a spade in this game.

Nearlyold

Grumpy_chap said:

Car_54 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't understand the "little dodge" with the van to get you the finance.  Are you saying that you purchased a van for (example) £7,200 of which £200 was deposit and £7k finance, yet the garage stated you had purchased a van for £9k of which £2k deposit and £7k finance?

That does not sound like a "little dodge" to me but sounds like a "scam" at the finance companies expense to which you were, at best, complicit.

No, it sounds like "fraud". And indeed conspiracy to commit fraud.

I didn't use that word because last time I did, I got a yellow card.  No calling a spade a spade in this game.

Its called "Bumping" in the trade, though its mainly used to give an over allowance on a part ex that's in negative equity. HMRC are apparently looking at the practice as it can have VAT implications particularly where invoices for the customer differ to those sent to the finance company. 

Herzlos

So you're saying the warranty company will consider paying some of it if you can take the non-running van to a VAT registered garage?
That's easy then, the cheapest option for you here is to get the van to your nearest VAT registered garage to do the work. Talk to them and see if they can transport it there for you (they've almost certainly got a contact for someone who can tow or trailer it) and get them to do the inspection work.

Then when presented with the total costs and warranty decision you need to decide if it's cheaper to repair the van or scrap it and get another one. If you've put 20,000 miles on it in the last year it's going to be pretty hard to prove it came with the underlying fault.