One parking Solution taking me to court.

fwesh

having had a bit of a look at POFA2012, what chances do I have with the following - 
only one notice to driver was put on the windscreen for 3 Dec 2019 (the second day of parking) 
Notices to keeper started to arrive 3,4,5,6,7.8 January 2020  these were for parking charges on the 2,3,4,5,6 and 7 December
since there were no PCN stickers on the window for 5 of these charges, it follows that they were issued ANPR.  Is it not the case that NTK should be served no later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked if they have been identified through ANPR?  We were not offered a chance of a discount either.
also the drivers name and address was given when my son paid £171 on the 12 February 2021  - 68 days after his PCN on the 3 December.
when a letter of claim was sent to me I provided my sons name and address via email.  (so would this be considered before a county court claim is filed and so therefore acceptable?)
would be very grateful for any advice here.

fwesh

thanks Coupon Mad! Yes he was bloody stupid, he knows that now!!! God they are such a scummy lot - I do think we owe some money (he owes) but the amounts it is building up to is scary and in no way justifies 6 days of parking......I have been following your posts and loved the story of that trial you went to with all the ladies!!

Coupon-mad

since there were no PCN stickers on the window for 5 of these charges, it follows that they were issued ANPR.

No, there is no ANPR there.  You can see on Google Streetview there is no camera.

I told you why there may have been no windscreen packets...so check the SAR photos and wording on the packets carefully when you get it.

  Is it not the case that NTK should be served no later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked if they have been identified through ANPR?

No because this wasn't ANPR and they are alleging there were PCNs on the car every day.  Look closely at the words on the yellow packets in the photos or maybe the ticketer removed them, to give the driver less chance to know about them and appeal or pay at the discount.

Redx

Actually , with no anpr cameras and the minimum 28 days waiting time , it actually follows their preferred pattern of MNPR , a person with a camera , a stalker !! As seen in the vets saga recently reported on here

Some of the most devious tactics we have seen are OPS , TPS , Armtrac and ukcps , amongst many others , usually IPC members but not exclusively that mob !!

The VCS myparkingcharge was yet another one

Umkomaas

Find out if OPS accessed your data from the DVLA every time for each one of those tickets. They must do this if they are invoking keeper liability under PoFA. 

You should email the DVLA and ask which organisations (when and for what reason) accessed the registered keeper's data from them between a range of dates which includes the date(s) of the parking incident(s). You need to provide the registered keeper's full name and address, the address on the V5C logbook and the Vehicle Registration Mark of the vehicle involved in the parking incident. 

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

This service is free of charge. 

Even though you email your request, the DVLA will respond via Royal Mail.

fwesh

Umkomaas said:

Find out if OPS accessed your data from the DVLA every time for each one of those tickets. They must do this if they are invoking keeper liability under PoFA. 

You should email the DVLA and ask which organisations (when and for what reason) accessed the registered keeper's data from them between a range of dates which includes the date(s) of the parking incident(s). You need to provide the registered keeper's full name and address, the address on the V5C logbook and the Vehicle Registration Mark of the vehicle involved in the parking incident. 

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

This service is free of charge. 

Even though you email your request, the DVLA will respond via Royal Mail.

I have just sent a subject access request to DVLA.  I have requested a SAR from OPS but still no answer from them a week later......

Redx

The business has 30 days to respond to your SAR request , it says so in your SAR template , one week is nothing !!

Johnersh

when a letter of claim was sent to me I provided my sons name and address via email.  (so would this be considered before a county court claim is filed and so therefore acceptable?)

A letter of claim is also known as a "letter before action."  by definition, if you can evidence this, they had the name of the correct defendant  before court proceedings were commenced - assuming the reply was sent before the issue date on the claim form (I ain't guessing). Even better if you can adduce further emails/letters/read receipts to show they had it. 

Just because it would be convenient to pursue the keeper doesn't mean they can. It appears from what the o/p says that they ignored or consciously elected to pursue the vehicle keeper. Once those details were provided she had discharged her duty and had no obligation to assist the claimant. Indeed one might argue the very purpose of the protocol is to elicit this type of info to ensure claims are brought only when necessary and against the correct defendant. 

The problem they have is that pofa sch 4 section 5(2) (as I read it at least) states clearly that keeper transfer of liability can *only* occur where:
(I) the driver name and address is unknown
(II) 28 days have passed since the notice AND
(iii) proceedings have commenced.

Part 7 cpr provides a further clue - "how to start proceedings" note that starts with the issue of the claim form. 

If the dates don't match, a suitable defence (assuming the evidence is robust) is, as stated Shaggy - coupled with the pofa point, to assert that the keeper cannot be liable.

The o/p must obviously decide her own best defence. I have merely pointed to the reading material that may be of interest.... 

Coupon-mad

SCS Law on what it means to 'begin proceedings' (transfer liability); they came to the same conclusion as @Johnersh:

http://portfolio.cpl.co.uk/Parking-News/395/26/  

Similar case here, and the OP filed a counterclaim because if they started proceedings against the wrong person, knowing the name and address of the driver but not wanting to bother to revert back to the liable named driver, then the keeper has grounds for a counterclaim for harassment and abuse of their data (DPA breach):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6225257/reply-to-lba-for-pcn-issued-feb-2019/p6

fwesh

Johnersh said:

when a letter of claim was sent to me I provided my sons name and address via email.  (so would this be considered before a county court claim is filed and so therefore acceptable?)

A letter of claim is also known as a "letter before action."  by definition, if you can evidence this, they had the name of the correct defendant  before court proceedings were commenced - assuming the reply was sent before the issue date on the claim form (I ain't guessing). Even better if you can adduce further emails/letters/read receipts to show they had it. 

Just because it would be convenient to pursue the keeper doesn't mean they can. It appears from what the o/p says that they ignored or consciously elected to pursue the vehicle keeper. Once those details were provided she had discharged her duty and had no obligation to assist the claimant. Indeed one might argue the very purpose of the protocol is to elicit this type of info to ensure claims are brought only when necessary and against the correct defendant. 

The problem they have is that pofa sch 4 section 5(2) (as I read it at least) states clearly that keeper transfer of liability can *only* occur where:
(I) the driver name and address is unknown
(II) 28 days have passed since the notice AND
(iii) proceedings have commenced.

Part 7 cpr provides a further clue - "how to start proceedings" note that starts with the issue of the claim form. 

If the dates don't match, a suitable defence (assuming the evidence is robust) is, as stated Shaggy - coupled with the pofa point, to assert that the keeper cannot be liable.

The o/p must obviously decide her own best defence. I have merely pointed to the reading material that may be of interest.... 

thanks Johnersh - this is the outline of my defense  - so far....putting some points in #3 and others where they fit in template from Coupon Mad
1. keeper/defendant is not liable as the driver's name and address were given before the court claim was issued 
a)the driver contacted one parking solution and under stress paid a charge of £170 plus another of £60 
B)the defendant sent an email to the solicitor after the letter of claim with the Drivers name and address- *I aim to clarify this counts as being before proceedings are started citing BPA article
2. signage was poor and driver did not see in the dark (will have pictures of signs with measurements) t's and c's etc.
3. only 1 PCN on windscreen and 5 notices to Keeper sent with no discount offered - 
4.Abuse of process (one charge went up to £340!!) others ranged from £170-£180

some questions - do I write on the defense the full story?  I got loads of parking charges sent by post, no chance of discount, massive charges which kept rising, son paid one charge, there may be more charges coming as it is unclear why they have dropped some....
do I ask for costs  under CPR27. 14 (2) (g) at this stage? or drop this.
can I do anything to stop further claims on this lot of PCN;s?  (he had parked for a full week)

phew! time for a drink to clarify my addled brain.
.