Single brick extension

grumbler

FreeBear said:

grumbler said:

Jeepers_Creepers said: It's a modernish build - almost certainly has a DPC.

How modernish can be an outdoors toilet and what sort of DPC? I don't see any blue bricks.

I would take a stab at it being a 1920s or 1930s build. The main house will have a DPC (probably a poured bitumastic layer), but without a closer look, the extension may not. If there is one, it could be buried below the level of the path.

I demolished a more recent toilet, including the concrete (sort of) slab. There was no anything except blue bricks.

princeofpounds

Just as no-one has raised it - if it is single skin brickwork, the property may be tricky to mortgage. Not impossible - there are a good handful of lenders that will consider it if it's just an extension. But standards could get more restrictive again in the future.

If you're planning work, it's something you might want to address.

Jeepers_Creepers

It is a small extension in the scheme of things, and has been there for yonks.

I cannot see any BS refusing a mortgage for it the way it stands - it hardly affects the house. We have a solid wall, un-insulated, tatty flat-roofed en-suite which was added, I dunno, 40-50 years ago and is as cold as 'ell. Did the BS say 'Non' to our mortgage application because of this? No. It didn't register. Why? Because all they wanted was a valuation, and this wee room didn't affect that a jot.

Personally - and that is all this is - for the sake of cost, but mostly sanity, I would simply upgrade that extension quietly, and it'll be infinitely better, genuinely pleasant and usable, and only a nutcase would question it. I mean - what would a surveyor say about the existing extension? Correct - signs of damp/doesn't conform/doesn't meet regs/recommend this, that, the other. So what will they say about the improved one? Yup - probably doesn't conform to current building regs, but, um, er, otherwise seems fine - no damp, wiring seems fine, extraction has been provided - in fact it all looks a bit sha**ing brilliant.  Buyer should, tho',  assure themselves of blah blah blah...

The OP can go the full BS route and end up skint and with a compromised design, or can go 'sensible' and end with what will be to all practical considerations equally usable, more roomy, and a shed-load in his pocket for a pint. Or a thousand. Or more.

Whether or not it has a DPC - fair chance it doesn't, much better chance it has - it's still made from brick and not stone or cobb... And it's single-storey. If you tank the inside, then any 'rising' will be forced out the outside. Jobbie jobbed. It'll be happy, and so will you.

Then D&D insulating board straight-on. What could be easier. Yes, the floor will need ditto - add DPM and insulation if easy to dig down a bit and do so, or just tank if it's solid concrete. Then whatever thickness of insulation you can add - even 10mm fibreboard will make a huge difference.

princeofpounds

I agree that it may not be a problem, particularly because it is single storey and may not be a single skin. But you don't have to look very far to find examples where it has been a problem.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6239831/single-skin-wall-help
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6082922/single-skin-wall-bad-purchase
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3596247/help-failed-survey-single-skin-brick
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77310419#Comment_77310419

Doozergirl

princeofpounds said:

I agree that it may not be a problem, particularly because it is single storey and may not be a single skin. But you don't have to look very far to find examples where it has been a problem.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6239831/single-skin-wall-help
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6082922/single-skin-wall-bad-purchase
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3596247/help-failed-survey-single-skin-brick
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77310419#Comment_77310419

I think it is becoming more of a problem than it ever used to be.  

Certainly anecdotally, there are more threads about it on the housing board than there ever were before.  

I couldn't carry out work for a small
saving that would potentially jeopardise a future sale.  Building control won't treat it quite like a new extension, I don't think.  An approved inspector might be more helpful in helping to meet required standards with a bit of flexibility as to how that is achieved.  

Building regulations are a *minimum* standard, remember!  I'm not sure why people want less than a minimum standard.  

princeofpounds

Here is one from today:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6245470/mortgage-valuation-0#latest

Jeepers_Creepers

princeofpounds said:

Here is one from today:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6245470/mortgage-valuation-0#latest

That example could barely be more different.

Come on guys (that's a gender-neutral 'guys', of course...)

Could the OP sell his house tomorrow, with this porch/outbuilding/extension as it is? Of course he could. It is a very minor concern to the rest of the house. It's been up for - what? - 20, 30, 40 years?! Does that 'extended porch' make a jot of difference to the house's integrity and value? No. If a mortgage provider were to refuse it, it would be an anomaly, and almost certainly another company wouldn't bat an eyelid.

All the OP is doing is improving/updating it. Making it better, more usable, whilst it still being what it has always been for the past numerous decades. That will make it less likely to obtain a mortgage? Really?

"Does it have BRegs?" "No, of course not - it's been there for 30+ years. Next question?"

princeofpounds

I think you're missing the point Jeepers. 

Could they sell it tomorrow, as is? Yes. Not all lenders would accept it, I hazard a guess most will as it is single storey, an extension, and thermally separated from the main part of the house.

How long it has been up for is nothing do to with it, nor does building regs. The point is that mortgage criteria change over time. Single skin brick used to almost never be a problem, now it is often a problem. Yes, the OP's situation is right at the bottom end of the risk spectrum, so it's probably fine as of now. But that trend of tightening criteria for this specific issue may well continue.

The reason I brought it up isn't to scare them. It's simply that if they are going so far as to massively renovate this extension, insulate it, clad it, integrate it into the main floor area of the house... then a) checking if it is actually single skin and b) thinking about whether they want to do something about it as part of the works makes a lot of sense. 

120624

CURRENT:

Plan with no extension:

Plan if extended (roughly some doors aren’t in the right place)Just to reply to some comments above on here, we got the house back in May on a mortgage with this brick extension already in place and nothing was mentioned on my survey or otherwise as a concern for the outer-now-attached building it was no doubt done by the council so (I assume?!) this would mean it’s sound but it’s just unsightly and improvements are needed to make it warmer.


We’re now considering actually extending this building to the left, installing a sloping roof, knocking through inside for an open plan kitchen/diner/snug. Let me know your thoughts on the layout  

Jeepers_Creepers

It certainly wouldn't have been an issue before as it was an 'outhouse', so nothing to do with the fabric of the house.

With your idea for the new extension, you are clearly looking at Building Regs now, so when it comes to obtaining quotes, see what the builders say; whether it's worth retaining the old outhouse walls, or knocking it all down and starting from scratch. I suspect the latter since who knows what the founds are like for starters. Most builders would like a 'clean slate'.

That'll also mean you can design the inside as you like - no restrictions.

Is the extension a 'good idea'? Make a list of pros and cons. A con you may need to mitigate for is loss of light to the kitchen/diner. Perhaps a sky lantern on the extension, and wider bifolds? A nice way to bring the garden into the living area, tho'.

Will you be going for a new kitchen any time soonish? If so, perhaps plan to change things about - move the kitchen/dining out into the extension where it'll make cooking, dining and entertaining a lovely experience, and have your 'snug' where the kitchen is?