New window opening in stone wall

fenwick458

Mizydoscape said:

I did wonder about that Apodemus. I've attached a picture of next door who have exposed the stone over their fireplace. The house is the same construction as mine as it was originally all one building.

A 600mm square window would be sufficient. 

Permitted development suggests that if the window is obscured glass and the same as other windows in the house then we don't need planning.

doesn't look like the easiest stone to work with, but i'm sure it's possible. I'm not a builder but i'd guess at £5-600 to make the opening, all going well, depending on the access. is it ground floor, or easy to erect a tower scaffold?
but it will always be an estimate with that stone. it could be a simple job if the proposed opening lines up with the joints and the wall is sound, but in the worst case scenario if every single cut is right in the middle of a blue cobblestone and they need to be cut, and then in turn end up falling out completely due to the mortar breaking up, it will end up being a bigger job and that quote could increase significantly

stuart45

fenwick458 said:

doesn't look like the easiest stone to work with, but i'm sure it's possible. 

It's not as easy as brickwork or a softer stone. With a hard stone like Chert or Granite it's not worth trying to cut down a line for the jambs. It's better to take the stone further back and rebuild with brickwork, or if it's face stone find some square ended quoin stones. There's a lot of houses built like that where I live so I know the problems you get in these situations. 

Apodemus

weeg said:

Actually, it's a fairly simple (which is not the same as easy) answer, especially if it's rendered.
You cut a slot and remove the stonework half way through the depth of the wall and put in precast lintels, ramming in drypack mortar at the bearings as you come back out. Wait for it to go off, and then go around the other side of the wall and repeat. Then cut out the hole for the window under your new lintels. Lintels are 100mm wide as standard, so you'll need 5-6 of them to fill the whole wall width. Because you are never entirely cutting through the whole depth of the wall, you don't need to worry about propping it.

Hmmm... I'm not convinced that approach would work in a rubble construction wall. In all probability, there may at places only be one thickness of stones and the triangle of stonework above the new opening (that is currently supported by the stones that you will remove) needs to be supported until a whole lintel is in place.

Nor am I convinced that the fireplace in the picture is original - it looks to me as if most of that infill of rubble stone has been redone at some point - up to the line of larger stones  nearer the top of the exposed part.  It is very strange not to have decent lintel above an old fire opening, where this looks like it as two separate lines of cross-pieces - are these wood or metal?

Either way, the job is entirely do-able but perhaps not cheap.  I'd wonder about taking the opportunity to make this an appealing feature of the house, inserting a new oak lintel and a high quality timber window, of a suitable design to match the rest of the building.  You will only do this once, so worth doing it properly.

stuart45

Apodemus said:

weeg said:

Actually, it's a fairly simple (which is not the same as easy) answer, especially if it's rendered.
You cut a slot and remove the stonework half way through the depth of the wall and put in precast lintels, ramming in drypack mortar at the bearings as you come back out. Wait for it to go off, and then go around the other side of the wall and repeat. Then cut out the hole for the window under your new lintels. Lintels are 100mm wide as standard, so you'll need 5-6 of them to fill the whole wall width. Because you are never entirely cutting through the whole depth of the wall, you don't need to worry about propping it.

Hmmm... I'm not convinced that approach would work in a rubble construction wall. In all probability, there may at places only be one thickness of stones and the triangle of stonework above the new opening (that is currently supported by the stones that you will remove) needs to be supported until a whole lintel is in place.

I've done quite a few similar jobs over the years, but never tried to cut out slots in random rubble stonework. If the wall is to be rendered, or to match existing that has brick jambs it's much quicker and cost effective to use brickwork bonded in l like this.

Mizydoscape

I have no idea how the windows we have were put in as they were done a long time ago. We would be looking for a upvc window to match the rest of the house. I just want to get light into the room.

Permitted development rules suggest we can do it but if the window is on the side elevation then it needs to be non opening and obscured glass. Now that's not an issue really although I would prefer clear glass. However I'm not clear if it is side or rear elevation as the wall is a curved corner!

Current window in lounge for reference.
Above shows the curve of the wall in the lounge that obviously carries on into the room above where we would like the window.

stuart45

Have you got an external photo of where the window is going?

Mizydoscape

@stuart45 here is the back of the house as viewable from the path (trees are in the way of photographing that actually curved corner)

Mizydoscape

So the window would be just where the wall curves out of view. I imagine it would sit diagonally in the new opening.

stuart45

Looking at the photo the curve joins onto the gable end. I would probably remove the stone work above the opening as well, and then rebuild the jambs and over the lintels in brickwork. The propping of the rafters does not look too difficult, but can't be sure from only a photo.

weeg

Apodemus said:

weeg said:

Actually, it's a fairly simple (which is not the same as easy) answer, especially if it's rendered.
You cut a slot and remove the stonework half way through the depth of the wall and put in precast lintels, ramming in drypack mortar at the bearings as you come back out. Wait for it to go off, and then go around the other side of the wall and repeat. Then cut out the hole for the window under your new lintels. Lintels are 100mm wide as standard, so you'll need 5-6 of them to fill the whole wall width. Because you are never entirely cutting through the whole depth of the wall, you don't need to worry about propping it.

Hmmm... I'm not convinced that approach would work in a rubble construction wall. In all probability, there may at places only be one thickness of stones and the triangle of stonework above the new opening (that is currently supported by the stones that you will remove) needs to be supported until a whole lintel is in place.

Nor am I convinced that the fireplace in the picture is original - it looks to me as if most of that infill of rubble stone has been redone at some point - up to the line of larger stones  nearer the top of the exposed part.  It is very strange not to have decent lintel above an old fire opening, where this looks like it as two separate lines of cross-pieces - are these wood or metal?

Either way, the job is entirely do-able but perhaps not cheap.  I'd wonder about taking the opportunity to make this an appealing feature of the house, inserting a new oak lintel and a high quality timber window, of a suitable design to match the rest of the building.  You will only do this once, so worth doing it properly.

It's something I've actually had done before without issue, but I will say that I work in scotland where we're dealing with sandstone, which is much easier to cut through (I'm talking literally stihl sawing a straight line where you want to top of the lintel) than some other stones, so you could well be right. Unless than mortar is crumbley half a wall can support itself in the short term.