Moving house...seller taking summer house

[Deleted User]

Irishpearce26 said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

As soon as I saw that the summer house wasn't staying, I'd be renegotiating!  It's not okay to say 'more than likely' staying and then exclude it if your offer was based on it. 

It wasn't in the brochure, but you did ask about it.  That's a big object to use as a carrot and then pull away.  

Agree with this. The summerhouse was clearly a selling point and I would have been renegotiating this when I first got wind that they were potentially taking it. 

They've been quite clever/sneaky in saying "Its highly likely to stay" because that basically means theres still a chance that it will go, whilst giving you the impression that they will leave it therefore you didn't enter renegotiations. 

You should have really demanded a yes/no answer at the time - "Either summer house stays, or we reduce the offer by £15k, confirm in writing please". Would have been my approach, but I fear it might be a little too late for that now. 

I think this is bad advice. There was nothing in writing or verbally that said the summerhouse was included in the sale, yes highly likely its staying is covering their backs and why not. Hindsight would be to cover items that may not be clear as staying in the offer. The buyer if they take your advice could lose credibility if they need to renegotiate for anything that comes out of surveys that warrants a reduction. 

What are you on about? I didn't specifically advise her to do anything, I told her what I WOULD have done when told the summerhouse was not guaranteed. 

Charrrb

GixerKate said:

If they are downsizing into a new build then its highly likely they don't have a big garden so surprised they want to take a summer house with them.

I would say that a concrete base isn't rubbish and for me I'd be happy that it was being left for me to then be able to put a summer house or something that I would be able to choose.  Just prior to selling my previous property we put in a concrete base at the end of the garden and its a lot of work, effort and money to install so wouldn't want to do that again.

Thanks. We suspect they have sold it on to someone else as we know the houses they are moving into (we live in a small town) and the garden would not accommodate a summer house of this size.

Irishpearce26

seradane said:

Irishpearce26 said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

As soon as I saw that the summer house wasn't staying, I'd be renegotiating!  It's not okay to say 'more than likely' staying and then exclude it if your offer was based on it. 

It wasn't in the brochure, but you did ask about it.  That's a big object to use as a carrot and then pull away.  

Agree with this. The summerhouse was clearly a selling point and I would have been renegotiating this when I first got wind that they were potentially taking it. 

They've been quite clever/sneaky in saying "Its highly likely to stay" because that basically means theres still a chance that it will go, whilst giving you the impression that they will leave it therefore you didn't enter renegotiations. 

You should have really demanded a yes/no answer at the time - "Either summer house stays, or we reduce the offer by £15k, confirm in writing please". Would have been my approach, but I fear it might be a little too late for that now. 

I think this is bad advice. There was nothing in writing or verbally that said the summerhouse was included in the sale, yes highly likely its staying is covering their backs and why not. Hindsight would be to cover items that may not be clear as staying in the offer. The buyer if they take your advice could lose credibility if they need to renegotiate for anything that comes out of surveys that warrants a reduction. 

Yes, but do you really have to specify everything is included when you make an offer? You don't go, I'd like to offer this amount, based on the fact there will be doors and walls and light fittings and and and... of course not. You make an offer based on what is seen when you view, and in my opinion a summer house is not something that is ordinarily picked up and moved with you when you move house, so I don't think it was unreasonable to expect it would stay.

As someone else said, the sellers are perfectly entitled to take the summer house with them, but equally the buyer is perfectly entitled to pull out or ask for a reduction (as I see they have above).

Nothing in a house is specifically included in a sale until the fixtures and fittings are complete. You can take the flowers out of flower beds if you like as long as you state this in the fittings and fixtures form. Its clear from the conversation the OP had with the sellers was that it wasn't 100% included from a discussion and this was confirmed in the fixtures and fittings. Yes they are entitled ask for a reduction and hopefully they will give a reduction but I don't see them coming down on £3k. So by your reasoning a TV that is fixed to the wall is included in the sale?

Doozergirl

Irishpearce26 said:

seradane said:

Irishpearce26 said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

As soon as I saw that the summer house wasn't staying, I'd be renegotiating!  It's not okay to say 'more than likely' staying and then exclude it if your offer was based on it. 

It wasn't in the brochure, but you did ask about it.  That's a big object to use as a carrot and then pull away.  

Agree with this. The summerhouse was clearly a selling point and I would have been renegotiating this when I first got wind that they were potentially taking it. 

They've been quite clever/sneaky in saying "Its highly likely to stay" because that basically means theres still a chance that it will go, whilst giving you the impression that they will leave it therefore you didn't enter renegotiations. 

You should have really demanded a yes/no answer at the time - "Either summer house stays, or we reduce the offer by £15k, confirm in writing please". Would have been my approach, but I fear it might be a little too late for that now. 

I think this is bad advice. There was nothing in writing or verbally that said the summerhouse was included in the sale, yes highly likely its staying is covering their backs and why not. Hindsight would be to cover items that may not be clear as staying in the offer. The buyer if they take your advice could lose credibility if they need to renegotiate for anything that comes out of surveys that warrants a reduction. 

Yes, but do you really have to specify everything is included when you make an offer? You don't go, I'd like to offer this amount, based on the fact there will be doors and walls and light fittings and and and... of course not. You make an offer based on what is seen when you view, and in my opinion a summer house is not something that is ordinarily picked up and moved with you when you move house, so I don't think it was unreasonable to expect it would stay.

As someone else said, the sellers are perfectly entitled to take the summer house with them, but equally the buyer is perfectly entitled to pull out or ask for a reduction (as I see they have above).

Nothing in a house is specifically included in a sale until the fixtures and fittings are complete. You can take the flowers out of flower beds if you like as long as you state this in the fittings and fixtures form. Its clear from the conversation the OP had with the sellers was that it wasn't 100% included from a discussion and this was confirmed in the fixtures and fittings. Yes they are entitled ask for a reduction and hopefully they will give a reduction but I don't see them coming down on £3k. So by your reasoning a TV that is fixed to the wall is included in the sale?

This is getting silly.  

No one ever expects a TV but if they are told that the 'tv is more than likely staying' then that would change the buyer's view.  IF the TV were going, then it's in the contract that the area needs to be made good.   If you're told that an actual building is more than likely staying then not only will it affect your offer, but a random concrete base being left behind is a sad reminder.  

It's like the eternal carrot offered by vendors saying they'll move into rented before the sale is agreed but immediately changing their minds when they have one. 

I think the OP is being fair in revising their offer based on the conversation they had.  

searchlight123

i think i would feel very put out by this situation. i've spoken to my son who is an estate agent and he completely gets that it would be a renegoiating point. you just need to assert that your offer was made with the assumption following the vendor's comment about it being likely to stay. now it becomes apparent that they are taking this with them it is not unreasonable of you to factor in the cost of a replacement as it will look unsightly in a well landscaped garden until you can get another one installed. i'm sure they would not risk a sale collapsing over this. it sounds like an upmarket shed rather than one of those £15k home office buildings that are springing up all over the place now due to home working.

pbartlett

The legal aspect is this (and it actually says as much on any literature you get from an estate agent):

Everything is subject to contract. The seller is perfectly within his right to include/exclude anything just as long as it is made clear on the property information form.

The contract has arrived - you have an issue with it (you were expecting the summerhouse to be included).

The options you have are to proceed anyway, back out, or re-negotiate.

This kind of thing happens all the time, including one of the parties pulling out on the morning of contract exchange.

Irishpearce26

This is getting silly.  

No one ever expects a TV but if they are told that the 'tv is more than likely staying' then that would change the buyer's view.  IF the TV were going, then it's in the contract that the area needs to be made good.   If you're told that an actual building is more than likely staying then not only will it affect your offer, but a random concrete base being left behind is a sad reminder.  

It's like the eternal carrot offered by vendors saying they'll move into rented before the sale is agreed but immediately changing their minds when they have one. 

I think the OP is being fair in revising their offer based on the conversation they had.  

Its not silly its reflective of the terms and conditions of the sale. If I said ill probably leave the TV on the wall as its a nightmare to get off to the seller (verbally) but before exchanging fittings and fixtures I managed to get it off and didn't include it in the fittings and fixtures that is how it goes I don't have to discuss reductions because im taking something that wasn't included in the sale. I have never said that the OP shouldn't or has no right to renegotiate, as I've said I hope they get some form of solution but what I am saying from any legal stand point there isn't any. I don't know at what stage the OP is with the conveyancing, has surveys been carried out if they are getting them done? If they are asking for a reduction for something that wasn't included in the sale how seriously are the vendors going to take any further reductions that do warrant that discussion.

AdrianC

We were in this exact same position when we bought this place. There was a big wooden summerhouse under an oak tree, on a rotating base to allow it to get morning, noon, or evening sun. It was even one of the photos on the RM listing.

When we got the paperwork through, it was listed as going.

We exchanged on the basis we knew it was going. Gawd knows what happened to it - the seller was selling his deceased parents' place, and putting a LOT of stuff into containers - some to go to his place in France, some to his brother in Canada. (I also know a lot of stuff got "stored" on other friends' farms, and still lurks there nearly 10 years later...)

In the grand scheme of things, the summerhouse was mildly disappointing but ultimately totally and utterly irrelevant. As it happens, it would have been flat-packed a few years ago, when that oak tree dropped a branch on it, but that's a side issue...

If you want the concrete pad replacing with turf, ask for it to be. If they removed, you can either walk away or shrug. Or use it as the base for a barbecue or pizza oven or whatever. Or break it up and dig it out and put a pond there. Or...

GDB2222

I must be daft here, but you don't want the garden made good, if I understand correctly. So that's a red herring. What you want is the summer house. And, you don't want to be paying more for it, as you thought it was included.

Obviously, if it's a shed that you can put together for a few hundred pounds, it's not worth pulling out over. But someone here mentioned a figure of £15k, and that's a lot of money for most people. Essentially, the sellers are trying to gazump you by £15k, and I would not put up with it, if it were me.

If they are committed to their new purchase, then you have them over a barrel, really. 

Doozergirl

Irishpearce26 said:

This is getting silly.  

No one ever expects a TV but if they are told that the 'tv is more than likely staying' then that would change the buyer's view.  IF the TV were going, then it's in the contract that the area needs to be made good.   If you're told that an actual building is more than likely staying then not only will it affect your offer, but a random concrete base being left behind is a sad reminder.  

It's like the eternal carrot offered by vendors saying they'll move into rented before the sale is agreed but immediately changing their minds when they have one. 

I think the OP is being fair in revising their offer based on the conversation they had.  

Its not silly its reflective of the terms and conditions of the sale. If I said ill probably leave the TV on the wall as its a nightmare to get off to the seller (verbally) but before exchanging fittings and fixtures I managed to get it off and didn't include it in the fittings and fixtures that is how it goes I don't have to discuss reductions because im taking something that wasn't included in the sale. I have never said that the OP shouldn't or has no right to renegotiate, as I've said I hope they get some form of solution but what I am saying from any legal stand point there isn't any. I don't know at what stage the OP is with the conveyancing, has surveys been carried out if they are getting them done? If they are asking for a reduction for something that wasn't included in the sale how seriously are the vendors going to take any further reductions that do warrant that discussion.

No one has suggested that what the vendor has done isn't legal.  

If the buyer feels misled on something, they can choose to renegotiate.  Not only is the object they thought/hoped they would be buying not included, they've been lumbered with an additional cost of doing something with the base.