Altered timesheet

AskAsk

marmite1979 said:

With previous managers or a supervisor a call would be made to the employee should a timesheet differ from a roster i.e a mistake or an extra hour or two added as overtime, to confirm. If anything including a signiture was missed you woud either sign it or send a new updated timesheet.
The current manager changes the timesheet which is already signed by the employee without informing them first as to why. If they followed the previous system then I'd explain that those hours were worked and are on the roster as proof.
If I filled in the timesheet in an attempt to fraudulenty claim for hours not worked or even not authorised by the manager direct or via the supervisor i'd be dismissed for fraud.

The point of this thread is to assatain whether its acceptable or even legal to alter an already signed document without the knowledge of the employee so it results in them being paid incorrectly?

Without going into detail there is a long standing isue with the manager in question messing up an losing mine and others timesheets after they've been handed in. I'm not going to elaborate more on this.

with regard to a matter of law, i do not believe there is anything illegal about what the manager has done.  as he has to sign off the timesheet, he can change it himself before he signs it off, but a manager would normally only do this after he has queried it with the employee, as he could refuse point blank to sign it and put it through a dispute process to get to the bottom of the discrepancy.

he has skipped that dispute process so you may be able to raise a complaint with HR or the manager above him as to your non involvement in the process, effectively you have the right to dispute what had been authorised and paid to you.

TELLIT01

If a manager has acknowledged that they were the person who changed it, didn't they explain why it had been changed?  To simply change the recorded hours on a whim seems unlikely.

marmite1979

TELLIT01 said:

If a manager has acknowledged that they were the person who changed it, didn't they explain why it had been changed?  To simply change the recorded hours on a whim seems unlikely.

They admitted to creating the mistake that lead to my wages being paid incorrectly after my investigation with payroll concluded that the timesheet they'd recieved had the hours for which theyd paid for. In other words Payroll paid wages that were on the timesheet they had recieved.A copy of which is signed by me.
What has not been concluded is why and should the manager alter a timesheet after the employee has signed it without them being informed. If a mistake is made then the employee adds to timesheet or fills in a new one then signs it ? on the second occassion the timesheet has also been seen and accepted by my supervisor, whose job is to send them to the manager.

The manager now insists when pay is incorrect that I go through the area i'm contracted with when chasing up discrepencies. I was reluctant due to not wishing to go behind her back when bringing up her mistakes as there have been numerous since she took over. I thought I was doing her a favour by not letting her seniors and other departments becoming aware of yet another wages/timesheet !!!!!!-up. 

marmite1979

AskAsk said:

marmite1979 said:

With previous managers or a supervisor a call would be made to the employee should a timesheet differ from a roster i.e a mistake or an extra hour or two added as overtime, to confirm. If anything including a signiture was missed you woud either sign it or send a new updated timesheet.
The current manager changes the timesheet which is already signed by the employee without informing them first as to why. If they followed the previous system then I'd explain that those hours were worked and are on the roster as proof.
If I filled in the timesheet in an attempt to fraudulenty claim for hours not worked or even not authorised by the manager direct or via the supervisor i'd be dismissed for fraud.

The point of this thread is to assatain whether its acceptable or even legal to alter an already signed document without the knowledge of the employee so it results in them being paid incorrectly?

Without going into detail there is a long standing isue with the manager in question messing up an losing mine and others timesheets after they've been handed in. I'm not going to elaborate more on this.

with regard to a matter of law, i do not believe there is anything illegal about what the manager has done.  as he has to sign off the timesheet, he can change it himself before he signs it off, but a manager would normally only do this after he has queried it with the employee, as he could refuse point blank to sign it and put it through a dispute process to get to the bottom of the discrepancy.

he has skipped that dispute process so you may be able to raise a complaint with HR or the manager above him as to your non involvement in the process, effectively you have the right to dispute what had been authorised and paid to you.

The manager authorise the roster prior to me booking the shift, then the same manager signs the sends off the timesheet i've signed once its been worked. There arent any unusual or off roster hours added. They are using the same online roster that I use to check my wages against. Somehow they change the timesheets that I sign then send to payroll.
With payroll, the department manager & supervisor, my employer(Who I signed the contract to work for) and the managers own superior collegues being aware of the much larger mistakes being made by them due to trying to get behind them. Once ones resolved another crops up.

Savvy_Sue

As I said before, strength in numbers. 

If you and others are being affected by this, then a collective grievance a) should carry more weight and b) does not paint a target just on YOUR back. 

Too much to hope you are active in a trade union? That could also be an effective method of dealing with this. 

Mickey666

Without knowing more about the company and organisation it's a bit difficult to follow exactly what's happening here.
The first thing I'd be doing is keeping copies of every timesheet that I submit.  Then, if my pay does not tally with what I have submitted I'd take it up with my manager based on the timesheet I submitted.

marmite1979

I cannot give my workplace out due to strict confidentialy rules and yes I'm in a Union and I've emailed the rep in regards to the matters with wages that have been ongoing since this manager was relocated to my location. But they haven't replied. Others have suffered too usually at the same time when said manager sends the timesheets either to  a defunct email address or not at all.

Diamandis

marmite1979 said:

I cannot give my workplace out due to strict confidentialy rules and yes I'm in a Union and I've emailed the rep in regards to the matters with wages that have been ongoing since this manager was relocated to my location. But they haven't replied. Others have suffered too usually at the same time when said manager sends the timesheets either to  a defunct email address or not at all.

If you have a union and your rep isn't replying to you then contact the union directly and tell them. This is absolutely what they should be helping with.

marmite1979

Mickey666 said:

Without knowing more about the company and organisation it's a bit difficult to follow exactly what's happening here.
The first thing I'd be doing is keeping copies of every timesheet that I submit.  Then, if my pay does not tally with what I have submitted I'd take it up with my manager based on the timesheet I submitted.

Not too difficult. Shes changing a timesheet after I've signed it, and she uses exactly the same roster as I see at home to check off it's correct. Due to the time I finish timesheets cannot be handed in when office staff are present, so printers/photocopiers etc are off. Anyhow the shifts worked are availble to view online if it says Mon 08:00 - 20:00 then thats what my timesheet will (unless I've made a mistake) She is altering the signed paper timesheeit whilst seeing this on the screen???.

marmite1979

The usual system was if you had filled in a timesheet incorrectly or missed anything out, it would be spotted by the Supervisor who receives it off you. If he was off a competent Manager would spot the errors. So the timesheets in question are correct until they reach payroll by which time they've been altered.