Advice on picking Hive, Google Nest or Something else?

bobfredbob

Nest has TPI and OpenTherm.  It only reports in 0.5C accuracy increments but for me without OpenTherm it overshoots by 0.5C, undershoots by 0C.  For me, that feels constant temperature; much better than my old thermostat that was all over the place.

Even in this cold week, it's often off for an hour or more, whereas I read that Honeywell's EvoHome fires up the boiler more frequently (every 10 minutes?) even for just a couple of minutes.  The upshot is that my radiators are frequently cold, but the room is warm.  With OpenTherm, I'd expect the radiators would be luke warm and the boiler on all the time.

I turn off all the smart features and the pre-heat.  So, it can pre-heat the room for up-to five hours to ensure it definitely meets the temperature you set in the morning.  Sounds good, but I don't need the house to be exactly x degrees in the morning. 

Nest is good, and I'm glad I installed it, but I don't know if I'd recommend it at the moment purely because it was bought by Google and they don't seem to have added any new features or products for years and frequently just drop products.  So, no smart TRVs (radiator valves), the history function (of how much you use) often doesn't work and isn't really accurate indication of gas usage with the UK's modulating boilers anyway.

I think all the "away from home" stuff can be done with all modern Internet controllers by using Alexa/IFTTT.

I'd be tempted by Drayton Wiser, but its OpenTherm only supports combi boilers, or if you have money > sense, EvoHome.

bobfredbob

For OP: in my old cold house, I replaced the single radiators with "type 22" from Screwfix.  These are double panel double fin radiators.  This allows them to give off a lot more heat.  So, although they fit on the same pipework, the extra fins means they're "oversized" for the room (so if room requires 2kw, the radiators may provide 4kw).  This means the rooms can get warm quickly and stay warm.  Perhaps a new thermostat is better and means you don't need new radiators, but thought I'd mention it while you're doing renovations since oversized radiators are more efficient for new boilers since they allow it to run at a lower temperature and so condense more.

Wkmg

bobfredbob said:

For OP: in my old cold house, I replaced the single radiators with "type 22" from Screwfix.  These are double panel double fin radiators.  This allows them to give off a lot more heat.  So, although they fit on the same pipework, the extra fins means they're "oversized" for the room (so if room requires 2kw, the radiators may provide 4kw).  This means the rooms can get warm quickly and stay warm.  Perhaps a new thermostat is better and means you don't need new radiators, but thought I'd mention it while you're doing renovations since oversized radiators are more efficient for new boilers since they allow it to run at a lower temperature and so condense more.

Thanks for the advice. That makes a lot of sense. I’ve noticed our hall freezes and the bedrooms never get warm but the sitting room, dining room and kitchen roast. The warm rooms all have type 22 radiators. I guess the last owner updated the radiators in the rooms they spent the most time in but didn’t bother with the rest of the house. I’m definitely changing the hall radiators as I find a cold hall really unpleasant.

Shedman

Batteries in Hive last about 2 years if you use Duracell Ultra or similar high spec ones (so a couple of quid or so a year basically).  There was a spate of people (including me) that had issues with battery life after the first battery change but they swapped out the thermostat for a later version (one where batteries all inserted in same direction rather than alternate in first edition) and it's been fine since. Edit: Just checked the battery indicator ..been in use since Nov 2019 and still showing around halfway on the bars

I find Hive very useful and think it has saved a bit of fuel but it's more the convenience aspect for me.  Being able to control away from home, being able to change schedules using the app instead of fiddling with thermostat, being to tell Alexa to boost heating, and also being able to move thermostat to best location and not have to find a power source as with Nest.  It also helped that I managed to get supplied and installed for £80 due to a loophole that BG have now closed (and I've probably had that value in Hive freebies such as bulbs, plugs, leak detector and spare hub from the BG Rewards program) 😅.  

I thought about the TRVs but would need 12 and even when they were on offer at half price it was still over £250 and decided that the payback period was too great, especially given at that time there were a lot more issues with them.  If they come on offer at that level of discount again however I might reconsider now the problems seem to have been sorted as again there is the comfort angle to it as well.

red_flump

Honeywell T6 smart thermostat with TPI.  As good as their older CM907 but with internet control.  Recommended.

Mintyrbc

Id look at Honeywell Evohome. The system allows you to zone each radiator thus setting a schedule for each room/zone which is the most efficient way to heat your home. 

keithgawler

Wkmg said:

keithgawler said:

I'm very happy with Hive. 5 years in our current property and an early adopter for about the same time in our previous property. Only use the heating and hot water facilities. The newer security products look a bit pricy and I have other products already for that, though clearly there is benefit in having a full product set integrated into one hub. I don't use the TRV product and you might want to do some research on this as I know there have been some widely publicised issues with it.

How long do the batteries last in the thermostat in real world use?

Must be very long lasting - I can't remember replacing where we are now. Not an issue in any event as it just takes standard batteries.

FreeBear

Tallerdave said: Wireless is crap - hardwire as much as you can for an easier life!

Some of my sensors are battery powered & wireless (433MHz) - Periodically, they fail to transmit data, and the battery life is pretty poor..

Anything connected to the internet is reliant on your connection being up 24/7 with zero outages. With Hive, Nest, etc, you are also dependent on some remote server which could be pulled at any time or at the mercy of software upgrades. There will come a point where the upgraded software is not compatible with your hardware, so that needs to be replaced.

I am running a "smart" control system here (Home Assistant) which keeps all the smarts within the house and doesn't rely on an external service provider. It does require a degree of computer knowledge and a willingness to get hands dirty, so isn't suitable for everyone. However, it gives me a great deal of control over timing & temperatures, and I'm reasonably happy that it is saving money on fuel bills. Even if it isn't saving much at present, the data it records should show what improvements (insulation, windows, etc) are worthwhile. Early days, as I've only been recording temperatures & energy consumption since June.

Tallerdave

FreeBear said:

Tallerdave said: Wireless is crap - hardwire as much as you can for an easier life!

Anything connected to the internet is reliant on your connection being up 24/7 with zero outages. With Hive, Nest, etc, you are also dependent on some remote server which could be pulled at any time or at the mercy of software upgrades. There will come a point where the upgraded software is not compatible with your hardware, so that needs to be replaced.

That's my bugbear with the Heatmiser stuff.  Remote sensors and thermostats can only talk to the hub, not to each other.  So if the hub sulks, not only do you lose remote access, the thermostat is blind and stops calling for heat.  The hub has no web interface so you can't interrogate it to find out what's wrong. All you can do is reboot it and pray.

Tallerdave

FreeBear said:

Tallerdave said: Wireless is crap - hardwire as much as you can for an easier life!

Anything connected to the internet is reliant on your connection being up 24/7 with zero outages. With Hive, Nest, etc, you are also dependent on some remote server which could be pulled at any time or at the mercy of software upgrades. There will come a point where the upgraded software is not compatible with your hardware, so that needs to be replaced.

That's my bugbear with the Heatmiser stuff.  Remote sensors and thermostats can only talk to the hub, not to each other.  So if the hub sulks, not only do you lose remote access, the thermostat is blind and stops calling for heat.  The hub has no web interface so you can't interrogate it to find out what's wrong. All you can do is reboot it and pray.