£7,000 chargeback denied

mrtenant

Hi 
Can anyone help me. I spent £7,000 on a coaching program with Bryan Harris of Growth Tools, based in the USA. It was advertised as a 1-to-1 coaching program with a 15 person mastermind. I had 1 coaching call in the whole time I've been with them, and there were 41 people in the mastermind. Worse still, the program consisted of sending me the same automated email for 13 weeks each Monday consisting of the same 2 actions: 
* Pitch to someone new each day
* Complete the weekly routine
And that's it. Unless at some point I get 1,000 subscribers to my list which they can't guarantee. So that's the program.
As you can see, it's really poor so I issued a chargeback via my Bank as I paid on a Mastercard debit card. I sent the evidence of their marketing emails and I sent a screenshot from a mastermind call that there were clearly more than 15 people on the call. Despite this, the retailer has successfully contested the chargeback on the grounds that "service was received in full in line with terms and conditions."
What do I do now. I have to hand back £7,000 to these people and all I get is that email each week. 
Surely this isn't acceptable. But what can I do. The bank are taking £7k from my account on 29th Feb.
Any advice you can give would be gratefully received.

Sandtree

If you bought from a company in the US its almost certainly governed by the state they are incorporated in and so any rights would related to there not here. Similar from what you are saying it sound like a business course you have booked not a consumer one and even here the statutory rights protecting businesses are much weaker than those protecting consumers... generally the USA are weaker still across the board.

You could log a complaint against your card issuer and escalate to the ombudsman but its not your bank that makes the decision and so as long as they presented your case appropriately its a bit of a long shot.

Your other option is to consider legal action against the merchant but the international aspect is going to make that more difficult.

mrtenant

Can I take this to the Small Claims court if the retailer is based in the USA?

davidmcn

mrtenant said:

Can I take this to the Small Claims court if the retailer is based in the USA?

Almost certainly their terms are subject to the law of their home state - so you'd need to pursue court action there.

mrtenant

Sandtree said:

If you bought from a company in the US its almost certainly governed by the state they are incorporated in and so any rights would related to there not here. Similar from what you are saying it sound like a business course you have booked not a consumer one and even here the statutory rights protecting businesses are much weaker than those protecting consumers... generally the USA are weaker still across the board.

You could log a complaint against your card issuer and escalate to the ombudsman but its not your bank that makes the decision and so as long as they presented your case appropriately its a bit of a long shot.

Your other option is to consider legal action against the merchant but the international aspect is going to make that more difficult.

It was sold to me as an individual rather than to me as a business. But does it sound like I am stuffed?
I really can't understand how Mastercard ruled in their favour given the evidence I sent. I sent their advertising email and I sent proof that this wasn't happening.

theonlywayisup

mrtenant said:

Sandtree said:

If you bought from a company in the US its almost certainly governed by the state they are incorporated in and so any rights would related to there not here. Similar from what you are saying it sound like a business course you have booked not a consumer one and even here the statutory rights protecting businesses are much weaker than those protecting consumers... generally the USA are weaker still across the board.

You could log a complaint against your card issuer and escalate to the ombudsman but its not your bank that makes the decision and so as long as they presented your case appropriately its a bit of a long shot.

Your other option is to consider legal action against the merchant but the international aspect is going to make that more difficult.

It was sold to me as an individual rather than to me as a business. But does it sound like I am stuffed?
I really can't understand how Mastercard ruled in their favour given the evidence I sent. I sent their advertising email and I sent proof that this wasn't happening.

But did you scrutinise the terms & conditions - as that is what your OP refers to?  

Also, Feb 29 isn't. 

born_again

maybe worth checking out the 1st post on this.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6240506/refund-rejected-by-bank-what-now#latest

MattMattMattUK

By the look of it you largely got what you signed up to, there are lots of these schemes in the USA, they are almost always never value for money, what is offered is usually shallow, obvious and of no real value. As well as the posts above pointing out the potential jurisdictional issues, one also has to ask what was actually in the package you signed up for. If it basically included emails and a few online video calls then you have no real grounds to contest it. 

Having just looked at him online I would not spend £0.07 on this guy, let alone £7,000.

Sandtree

mrtenant said:

It was sold to me as an individual rather than to me as a business. But does it sound like I am stuffed?
I really can't understand how Mastercard ruled in their favour given the evidence I sent. I sent their advertising email and I sent proof that this wasn't happening.

You would need to explain what the courses is intended for, a sole trader is still an "individual" but dont get consumer rights if the purchase is related to their income generation. 

Their decision would need to be taken considering the exact wording of the advertising, the T&Cs of the transaction and the state law governing the transaction. Here we have a lot of consumer protection saying advertising has to be accurate, in other places things are much more "bought as seen" and so the adverting saying classes of 15 doesnt really matter if the T&Cs say classes can be up to 100.

mrtenant

MattMattMattUK said:

By the look of it you largely got what you signed up to, there are lots of these schemes in the USA, they are almost always never value for money, what is offered is usually shallow, obvious and of no real value. As well as the posts above pointing out the potential jurisdictional issues, one also has to ask what was actually in the package you signed up for. If it basically included emails and a few online video calls then you have no real grounds to contest it. 

Having just looked at him online I would not spend £0.07 on this guy, let alone £7,000.

It offered 1 to 1 coaching and a 15 person masterclass. I got one coaching call in months and the mastermind had 41 people in it. So not what they advertised at all.

mrtenant

Sandtree said:

mrtenant said:

It was sold to me as an individual rather than to me as a business. But does it sound like I am stuffed?
I really can't understand how Mastercard ruled in their favour given the evidence I sent. I sent their advertising email and I sent proof that this wasn't happening.

You would need to explain what the courses is intended for, a sole trader is still an "individual" but dont get consumer rights if the purchase is related to their income generation. 

Their decision would need to be taken considering the exact wording of the advertising, the T&Cs of the transaction and the state law governing the transaction. Here we have a lot of consumer protection saying advertising has to be accurate, in other places things are much more "bought as seen" and so the adverting saying classes of 15 doesnt really matter if the T&Cs say classes can be up to 100.

Okay thanks for the information. Appreciated.