Paying for care...means testing joint assets

sixseven

Not sure if this is the right section or not...but here goes...
Unfortunately, my 87yo dad has always put everything he has earned in to accounts which are in both my parents' names, and has never 'financially planned', or put anything in his sole name.  This 'good husband' approach is now having ramifications as my mum has advanced dementia and needs care in her home.   The council have done a means test and have decided that based on the financial assets they both hold in the joint accounts (totalling just over over £65k), that she doesn't qualify for any contributions towards care costs as her half exceeds the £23500 threshold.  
The main reason they have just over £65k in savings today is because my father bought a house with his own money in 1957 (ten years before he met my mum), and then sold in 2003 making around £160k on it at the time of sale.  I have the mortgage documents to prove this was all done in his name alone.
My question is...can the council fairly claim that all the money in the joint accounts be considered as equally split between my parents despite a large sum of it coming from an asset my father held in his name up until 2003?
Thanks for any guidance or experiences anyone has had with this sort of thing.

elsien

Regardless of whose name the sold house was in, the money from it would be counted as a marital asset when they have been married for over 50 years,  in other circumstances for example if both had capacity and were divorcing. This situation isn’t any different in that respect. 

It is normal for financial assets held in joint names to be split between the two people in these circumstances. 

Has a claim for attendance allowance been made? 

sixseven

Thank you, that makes sense. Yes they are in receipt of attendance allowance. 

Grumpy_chap

I know this will be alien to your parents, but they do need to split the value of the bank account into separate accounts.
Joint Account:

• They start with £65k, so half is above the £23.5k threshold for care.  £32.5k each.
• Spend £5k on care fees, leaves a balance of £60k, half is still above the £23.5k threshold.  £30k each.
• The joint account won't fall below the threshold until the joint balance is £46k.  £23k each

Separate Accounts:

• Start with £65k.  £32.5k each
• Spend £5k on care fees, so £27.5k plus £32.5k
• Once the one needing care falls below the threshold, support becomes available.  £23k plus £32.5k.  Total £55.5k balance between them.

Pollycat

Grumpy_chap said:

I know this will be alien to your parents, but they do need to split the value of the bank account into separate accounts.
Joint Account:

• They start with £65k, so half is above the £23.5k threshold for care.  £32.5k each.
• Spend £5k on care fees, leaves a balance of £60k, half is still above the £23.5k threshold.  £30k each.
• The joint account won't fall below the threshold until the joint balance is £46k.  £23k each

Separate Accounts:

• Start with £65k.  £32.5k each
• Spend £5k on care fees, so £27.5k plus £32.5k
• Once the one needing care falls below the threshold, support becomes available.  £23k plus £32.5k.  Total £55.5k balance between them.

My Mum and Dad had joint accounts.

When Dad needed to go into permanent care, our County Council sent a financial assessor out and we sat down with all paperwork and agreed half and half of capital.

In addition to the money in the joint account, there was a joint fixed term bond which was not accessible.

It was agreed that the council would fund the shortfall of Dad's care (he had his state pension and a private pension) until the bond became available.

As it turned out, he died with a few months of going into the care home, the bond became accessible and the council just sent a bill for the care they paid for.

Do you mean literally split into separate accounts?

Would that even be possible if the OP's Mum has advanced dementia (and therefore lacks mental capacity)?

It sounds like the council have dealt with this as they did my Mum and Dad and equally split capital between the OP's parents without the need for actual separate accounts.

I agree with Elsien about the house being a joint asset after all this time.

sammyjammy

If the OPs Dad opened a new account and transferred his half he could request his name is removed from the joint account, no need for Mum to be able to open a new account.

elsien

sammyjammy said:

If the OPs Dad opened a new account and transferred his half he could request his name is removed from the joint account, no need for Mum to be able to open a new account.

If mum lacks financial capacity they would then need a deputyship in order to access mum's account if there is no LPA in place. 

She may also need to agree to have his name removed which also requires capacity/LPA/deputyship. 

sixseven

Thanks everyone...appreciate your thoughts and feedback.  I have both Health and Wealth LPA for Mum so we could do as above and split the accounts

[Deleted User]

Yes with £65k in savings they have to pay, thats why social care in the UK is a joke because well off people think someone else should pay for their care <shakes head>

wilfred30

sixseven said:

Thanks everyone...appreciate your thoughts and feedback.  I have both Health and Wealth LPA for Mum so we could do as above and split the accounts

I would've thought that it's too late to do that now as the assessment has already taken place so they know that your parents are sitting on £65k.  Or do you think that you can just 'hide' half of it and ask for another assessment?

ess0two

venison said:

Yes with £65k in savings they have to pay, thats why social care in the UK is a joke because well off people think someone else should pay for their care <shakes head>

That's why you need to spend it, no point admiring it or being pro-active against others who had'nt bothered.