VW Dieselgate claims

Mickey666

OK, fair point in this case, albeit pedantic, but as you probably realised I was making a wider point that WHY people choose to buy a particular car is not really the issue here.  If the car itself is non-compliant with the law then the issue can hardly be ignored on the basis that buyers don't actually care about compliance - which is what some are arguing here.
It's clearly an emotive subject, which is part of the problem.  Law and emotion is not a good mix.

[Deleted User]

Your losses are devaluation of the car, health damage from exposure to excessive emissions and any costs related to getting it fixed.

stecd123

Thanks everyone.... I'm not sure if I will take up the solicitors offer to sign up for the no win / no fee compensation. To be honest the car has been great and I love the VW brand but I guess if the lawyers do actually prove there has been a loss and are successful in making VW pay out then wouldn't I be foolish not to put myself forward?

Can we go back to my original question "does anyone know if I would be able to make a claim direct to VW myself rather than use the no win / no fee solicitors?" The reason I ask is because I believe MSE used to encourage people to fill out s form and send it direct to the financial organisations for compensation for misselling of payment protection. I guess once it's been established by the solicitors there has been a loss there might be a simple generic formula to work out what was payable to the applicant?

Any info or insight would be much appreciated. I bought the VW in 2013 and it has been identified as having the cheat device fitted - I stiil have it and it has always been dealer serviced. I did buy the car because I liked the Blue Motion / low emissions / low tax aspects so I do feel a little bit conned but to be honest don't know how much by. That's for VW and the solicitors to work out... if anything.

AdrianC

stecd123 said:

Can we go back to my original question "does anyone know if I would be able to make a claim direct to VW myself rather than use the no win / no fee solicitors?"

Of course you can.
Anybody can launch a claim against anybody for any reason.
Winning it in court is the tricky bit.

And if your solicitor isn't NWNF, then you're paying them whether you win or lose, right...?

The reason I ask is because I believe MSE used to encourage people to fill out s form and send it direct to the financial organisations for compensation for misselling of payment protection.

PPI is/was a very different kettle of red herrings. The legalities around that started in 2005, and the generic assumption of mis-selling was legally established at the very highest levels.

I guess once it's been established by the solicitors there has been a loss there might be a simple generic formula to work out what was payable to the applicant?

Solicitors don't establish things. They merely allege things.
Courts establish whether the allegations are accurate or not.

I bought the VW in 2013 and it has been identified as having the cheat device fitted - I stiil have it and it has always been dealer serviced.

So you had the fix applied back in 2016 or 2017, then? That was the end of your "losses".

I did buy the car because I liked the Blue Motion / low emissions / low tax aspects

How much did the tax go up? How much did the official CO2 figure go up? Did somebody remove the BlueMotion badge from it? so I do feel a little bit conned But not enough to choose to sell it when all this hit the headlines back in 2015.

williamgriffin

[DELETED USER] said:

Your losses are devaluation of the car, health damage from exposure to excessive emissions and any costs related to getting it fixed.

Surely everyone is entitled to claim for exposure to emissions?

Mickey666

williamgriffin said:

[DELETED USER] said:

Your losses are devaluation of the car, health damage from exposure to excessive emissions and any costs related to getting it fixed.

Surely everyone is entitled to claim for exposure to emissions?

That's a different issue.  This case is about being MISLED about emissions.

Mickey666

AdrianC said:

stecd123 said:

I bought the VW in 2013 and it has been identified as having the cheat device fitted - I stiil have it and it has always been dealer serviced.

So you had the fix applied back in 2016 or 2017, then? That was the end of your "losses".

My understanding is that there is no 'fix' to the emissions issue.  Yes, VW removed the 'cheat' software that lowered emissions during testing, but that's not really a fix to the basic charge of misrepresenting the emissions.  So, purchasers have still been misled at the time they bought their vehicle and if the courts decide that should be compensated then it matters not what VW might have done to their vehicles AFTER their purchase.    It could be argued that VW is now being honest, but that's too late for the buying decision of the consumers who bought the vehicles under false pretences.

If the vehicles STILL meet the UK/EU standards with the cheat software removed then that just shows how stupid VW have been in misrepresenting emissions performance when it wasn't even necessary!

[Deleted User]

Mickey666 said:

Deleted_User said:

Mickey666 said:

Herzlos said:

stecd123 said:

Thanks williamgriffin - to be honest I'm not sure but am being told I have been put at a loss by a solicitor although not sure what the formula is to calculate the value.

You're only out by the difference between what you paid for the car and what the car was actually worth. Given that VW did a software update under warranty to remove the cheat then I don't think the value changed much as no-one really cares about the performance beyond the outrage. The value of the cars tanked when the announcement was made but have since recovered.

. . . and you know that for a fact do you?  For every purchaser of said car?

BTW, I tend to agree with you that few people buy a car based on emissions, but that's not really the point is it?  The point is the subterfuge of VW and whether they should get away with it scott-free.  You seem to think they should.

No.
VW have not got away with it, they got massive fines. Herloz is not saying VW shouldn't get away with it, he/she is saying owners aren't owned money for a non-existent loss. 
Nobody in the UK buys a car based on NOx emissions because they're not advertised as a selling point and, beyond the MOT, aren't even recorded. When you buy a diesel you look at the annual vehicle tax rate (low as it's based on CO2 which wasn't on the cheat test) and MPG, you don't ask about NOx because it's not a big thing here unlike the US. Nobody in the UK who has an affected vehicle has lost money based on a cheat test designed primarily for the US market as it didn't affect them. These compo group actions are simple greedy, money grubbing grifters who see a chance for free cash if they lie and turn on the waterworks about how terrible they treated and how they'd never have bought the car if they'd known it had higher NOx than it was recorded as having and blah blah blah.

Come on, you must realise you cannot state that as a proven fact.  Besides, what IS a 'selling point' anyway?
You can only guess the reason someone chose to buy a car.  As for 'money grubbing grifters', that's just your opinion and is totally worthless as a point of law.  Thank goodness.

Look, I happen to largely agree with you about ambulance chasers and chancers, but that's not the point.  A major multinational company engaged in wilful cheating and conspiracy to deceive and it seems only reasonable that they pay the price for such a heinous transgression - as they largely have.  In the USA their customers were indeed able to return there cars in exchange for money/compensation so it seems entirely reasonable to ask if that's possible in the UK.

Yes, I know UK laws are different and I know our emissions are different and I've previously agreed that if the cars met UK standards then VW UK is not guilty, in which case presumably any case against them will fail.  That is how the law works, and should work.
How the law should NOT work is by taking any notice of people implying what went through the mind of VW buyers and their  own personal distaste for 'money grubbing grifters'.

I'm not trying to state it as a proven fact, but it doesn't change the point that it is correct. How can anyone claim they were miss-sold buying a VW based on it having higher NOx emissions when these are not advertised in the UK as a selling point - CO2 (through VED) and mileage are what are advertised, even today, you won't see NOx emissions listed as part of the main site. I am on the VW Golf 8 brochure right now, the spec sheet for the range advertises CO2 emissions only. There are no figures for NOx, indeed, searches on the PDF for nitrous, oxide, nox provide no results. Simply put, no-one bought a VW because of low NOx and that is provable by the fact it's not even advertised on the VW site.

Further though, I am not the one making the claim, thus the burden of proof is not on me. If we pretend that multiple people bought a VW golf because they thought it had lower NOx figures, what evidence can they show that proves that was the reason they bought the golf? Are the golf figures lower NOx than say a Seat Leon, Mazda 3 etc? If not, again, the argument they bought the golf for low NOx is again defeated.

The reason the people claiming this are money grubbing grifters is because they see the chance for cash and jump on the bandwagon without any evidence that they were wronged.

[Deleted User]

Mickey666 said:

williamgriffin said:

[DELETED USER] said:

Your losses are devaluation of the car, health damage from exposure to excessive emissions and any costs related to getting it fixed.

Surely everyone is entitled to claim for exposure to emissions?

That's a different issue.  This case is about being MISLED about emissions.

Except they weren't misled, as VW don't sell the car as having low NOx in the UK, so no-one would buy the car because of that. Further, what proof can anyone provide they bought the car for low NOx emissions (evidence of their searches/research etc). If the car they bought has a similar spec from a rival car with lower NOx, that also proves they didn't buy it for lower NOx as well - something that would be very easy to compare. On top of that, if they cared about NOx, why buy a diesel anyway vs a hybrid, electric?

MH1927

Its an EU standardisation Directive that only CO2 can be used to advertise cars, the US particularly California uses NOx.