BT Mis-Selling. Calling all BT and other ISP Customers to Read this post!!!

TheBeeMan

Hi all, hope everyone is safe and well.

Will keep this as brief as possible so its easy to follow.

Ive been a customer of BT for Home Telephone and Broadband for the past 3 years now.

In Dec 2018 I signed up to a BT residentail BB and Home Phone Package.

Estimated Dowstream (Download) was between 20 - 31 Mbps

Estimated Upstream (Upload) was between 2.3 - 4.4 Mbps

Fast foward to June 2019 (6 months after order was placed)

I received a call from BT stating that they were now able to upgrade my BB package with faster speeds and a "Minimum Stayfast Guarantee".

Miniimum Stayfast Guarantee offered was 55 Mbps as a Downstream (Download) speed.

This package also meant that there was a price increase for the faster speeds.

Being as I'm just a customer and assumed that the infrastructre had been upgraded based uopn the faster offered speeds, I went ahead and re contracted for another 18 months based on the Stayfast Guarantee.

During the next 18 months of my contract my speeds were never above 20 Mbps Download and 0.7 Mbps Upload.

I complained probably about 20 times during the contract and the same amount if not more of reported faults due to drop outs, router issues, wiring, speed, etc

25+ engineers in 18 months visited my property, the Cabinet and the Exchange in order to try and resolve the issue which were never fixed.

I've since found out via Openreach, Ofcom and even BT's own Public information that my maximum capable line speeds are as follows:

VDSL Range A (Clean) = Download 30.3 Mbps, Upload 4.4-2.5 Mbps (Highest possible speed on a clean line with zero faults)

VDSL Range B (Impacted) = Download 30.1 Mbps, Upload 4.4-2.3 Mbps (Highest possible speed on an impacted line with fauls)

The above speeds have never been any different in the 3 years I've been a customer of BT. The quoted maximum speeds have never changed.

Based on this being fact and that BT is supplied Line Speed tests by Openreach. BT can therefore only offer maximum speeds based on the reports supplied by Openreach.

If Openreach clearly state as do BT's own site, that my maximum line speed based on the cables used between Telegraph Poles is 30.3 Mbps with a perfect line, how can BT sell me a service with a Minimum Stayfast Guarantee of 55 Mbps Download speeds?

I truly believe and have proof to show that BT have been Mis-selling contracts based upon speeds that are never attainable without substantial infrastructure upgrades.

If I have been Mis-sold this contract by BT, this also means that other customers have been targeted with the same Mis-selling approach.

If BT are doing this, the you can be sure that other ISP customers are also being Mis-sold contracts and paying for somethng they can never achieve.

This is classed as "Fraudulent Misrepresentation". Under the Misrepresentation Act 1967 your Service provider is in Breach of Contract and also Against UK Law.

If this is true, the customers of this Mis-selling are entitled to a Full or Partial Refund as well as Damages or Finaincial Compensation to be determind by a court judge.

Now I'm probably getting ahead of myself with this next comment, however.

This is how the PPI Mis-selling drama came about, and we all remeber the annoying adverts on TV, Radio, Social Media etc. That was worth Billions and created an entire industry sector based upon that Mis-sell alone.

Almost all households and business in the UK have a Internet connect of sme description that they pay for. That's over 28 million houseolds in the UK with Fibre enabed Home BB Connections.

Now Imagine if just 25% of those customers have been Mis-sold by there ISP. if I have been a customer for 36 months paying £30.00 per month, if i was offered a total refund that equates to £1000. Times that by a possible 28 million customers that have aslo had a contract mis-sold for 3 years = 28,000,000,000 (Twenty Eight Billion Pounds)

Now I'm not suggesting that everyone has been Mis-sold or that we are all owed £1000. This number will be different for each individual customer depending on how long your mis-sold contract length was, the amount of your monthly subscription as well as many other factors too, but you can see the potential magnitude of this implication.

I mean let's face it, we could've all been mis- sold at some stage and never realised it. With a simple check of a website against your ISP contract with a Minimum Stayfast Guarantee, you too can find out if you believe you have also been mis-sold.

NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT!

I am asking for all Broadband ISP customers both past and present to check you linespeeds via the link below and cross-refrence with your ISP contract.

If you find your ISP Contracted Minimum Download Guaranteed speed is below that of the Maximum Line Test, you too have been mis-sold.

If we can gather a group of Mis-selling customer cases against BT and any other ISP, we can advance this foward and stop the ISP compaines being able to consistantly lie about speeds and what is and isn't possible.

This website is BT's own information passed to BT by Openreach. Please check your own line speed and see if your're even able to get the minimum line speed that youre guaranteed by your ISP contract.

Unfortunately, I haven't been on the site long enough to enable me to post a direct link to the website.  But please Google "Broadband Checker BT Wholesale"

Enter your Home Postcode for a basic overview of your Speed information or enter your Home Telephone Number for more detailed data as I did.

Im hoping that the savy among us will realise that I'm not just sounding off and that I have actually found a fundamental flaw that is being flouted by the ISP. All this have been acheived by my own basic pubic information research online, emails sent and calls made.

Hopefully with time we can amass a group of us that have encountered Mis-selling by our ISP's under the Misrepresentation act 1967 and challenege the ISP's with a group action against them.

Myself alone entering into something of this potential magnitude isn't really a viable option without someone with professional and legal expertise to advise me on how to move forward. Hence why I beleive a group action with many similar cases would work better.

I truly believe that Martin Lewis would be the best person to start looking into this with all his knowledge and industry contacts, however I'm sure we all know that you've probably more chance of contacting Boris Johnson Prime Minister than Martin Lewis.

But if anyone has any suggestions as to how I could contact Martin Lewis Directly with this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Apologies for any spelling or grammar mistakes, I'm no academic thats for sure.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this far, please leave your comments and replies below and I will reply as quickly as I can.

Stay safe everyone.

Beeman

JJ_Egan

The Link and please note speed tests must be carried out over Ethernet cable not Wifi .

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

https://speedtest.btwholesale.com/

PS over many years all my purchased speeds have been correct .

ML sold this site many years ago .

SteveVy

Unfortunately I don't think what your saying is valid...if you didn't get the 55 Mbps you were "guaranteed" as per BT's terms and conditions you should of just left or agreed a reduced price for the reduced speed. The minimum speed of 55 Mbps is just an estimate...I am assuming your on FTTC connection which means a lot of external factors can cause a variation speed, also your home wiring could be at fault.

Take a look at this:

https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/learn-about-broadband/broadband-speed/i-m-not-getting-the-expected-stay-fast-guarantee-or-minimum-broa

Also would be helpful if you could post your sync speed ....and I don't think this is such an issue as your making it out to be...

[Deleted User]

If you bought a package which was more than you could get, you'd have been able to get a £20 payment twice and the ability to leave your contract without penalty.

So if the speed is an issue, you can very quickly collect your double bonus and back out of the contract. Conversely, if speed isn't an issue for a customer, I can't see them choosing to pay more for an increased speed. 

I think therefore the number of people in your position would be vastly less than either 'everyone' or '25% of everyone'.  It's more likely somewhere below 1%.

TheBeeMan

JJ_Egan, many thanks for the link to the webite I mentioned. I'm aware that ML sold the website many years ago now, however he does appear on various TV shows as well as his own. Somehow there must be a way to get in contact with him albeit a very difficult task as in in a very long queue to get in touch with him

Cheers

TheBeeMan

SteveVy said:

Unfortunately I don't think what your saying is valid...if you didn't get the 55 Mbps you were "guaranteed" as per BT's terms and conditions you should of just left or agreed a reduced price for the reduced speed. The minimum speed of 55 Mbps is just an estimate...I am assuming your on FTTC connection which means a lot of external factors can cause a variation speed, also your home wiring could be at fault.

Take a look at this:

https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/learn-about-broadband/broadband-speed/i-m-not-getting-the-expected-stay-fast-guarantee-or-minimum-broa

Also would be helpful if you could post your sync speed ....and I don't think this is such an issue as your making it out to be...

Thanks for your comment SteveVy.

Where you say "The minimum speed of 55 Mbps is just an estimate, this isn't true. The quoted 55mbps is a "Minimum Stayfast Guarantee". Meaning the Minimum guaranteed download speed should be no less than 55 Mbps as per the contract guarantee.

The intial contract I took out quoted me much lower speeds of 20-31 Mbps. Then 6 months later, BT called met upgrade to a faster speed and pay more for it, offering me a minimum guaranteed downlowad speed of 55 Mbps knowing full well that my maximum download Line Speed was no more than 30.3 Mbps. The point im making is that this is surely the definition of a mis-sell as I've been offered something fraudulently as the guarantee offered was never achievable.

TheBeeMan

Deleted_User said:

If you bought a package which was more than you could get, you'd have been able to get a £20 payment twice and the ability to leave your contract without penalty.

So if the speed is an issue, you can very quickly collect your double bonus and back out of the contract. Conversely, if speed isn't an issue for a customer, I can't see them choosing to pay more for an increased speed. 

I think therefore the number of people in your position would be vastly less than either 'everyone' or '25% of everyone'.  It's more likely somewhere below 1%.

Thanks for your comment zx81.

Im fully aware of the way to exit a contract and claim whatever part of the stayfast guarantee I was eligible for.

Im also fully aware of the fact that there won't be 28 million households in the same position as me as said in the initial thread I wrote. But even if it is as you say below 1% of 28 million customers thats still a possible sub 280,000 customers that could have been mis-sold in similar ways to me.

Backing out of the contract means nothing as the billing will be the only thing that changes, the service will still be maintained by Openreach and I will then be on a much lower Guaranteed speed contract meaning I have no further compaint regarding the Mis-sell.

Its the point of Mis-selling I'm making, the speed issue is how the Mis-sell has come about.

Cheers

[Deleted User]

TheBeeMan said:

Deleted_User said:

If you bought a package which was more than you could get, you'd have been able to get a £20 payment twice and the ability to leave your contract without penalty.

So if the speed is an issue, you can very quickly collect your double bonus and back out of the contract. Conversely, if speed isn't an issue for a customer, I can't see them choosing to pay more for an increased speed. 

I think therefore the number of people in your position would be vastly less than either 'everyone' or '25% of everyone'.  It's more likely somewhere below 1%.

Backing out of the contract means nothing as the billing will be the only thing that changes, the service will still be maintained by Openreach and I will then be on a much lower Guaranteed speed contract meaning I have no further compaint regarding the Mis-sell.

But that would be your desired result.  Your cost drops, your guaranteed speed drops but is still ideal for your purposes because the higher one wasn't achievable and your complaint is resolved.  

A complain serves no purpose if you do not want that complaint to be resolved.

TheBeeMan

Deleted_User said:

TheBeeMan said:

Deleted_User said:

If you bought a package which was more than you could get, you'd have been able to get a £20 payment twice and the ability to leave your contract without penalty.

So if the speed is an issue, you can very quickly collect your double bonus and back out of the contract. Conversely, if speed isn't an issue for a customer, I can't see them choosing to pay more for an increased speed. 

I think therefore the number of people in your position would be vastly less than either 'everyone' or '25% of everyone'.  It's more likely somewhere below 1%.

Backing out of the contract means nothing as the billing will be the only thing that changes, the service will still be maintained by Openreach and I will then be on a much lower Guaranteed speed contract meaning I have no further compaint regarding the Mis-sell.

But that would be your desired result.  Your cost drops, your guaranteed speed drops but is still ideal for your purposes because the higher one wasn't achievable and your complaint is resolved.  

A complain serves no purpose if you do not want that complaint to be resolved.

I think you might be missing the point im trying to make or I have't been very clear in that point which is more likely the case.

If I change my ISP, yes my cost may drop ever so slightly and I will more likely be getting the same speeds as I am now, this I agree completely with you on. but its not the point im making and is not my desired result as you say. My point is knowingly Mis-selling a contact based on data and spees that BT knew were't possible.

Regardless of wether I change my ISP or not, the issue is that I was still sold something for a period of 3 years of which BT provided a Minimum Download Stayfast Guarantee contract stating that my download speed would not be below that of 55 Mbps, which at the Point of Sale BT knew was never ever a possibility with data supplied to them by openreach.

The compaint serves a purpose when that complaint is founded on being sold a contract knowing it was fraudulent at the initial Point of sale.

However I do respect you opinion and comments as I hope you do mine.

Cheers

JJ_Egan

Minimum Stayfast GuaranteeHow   long has this been in use ??

EssexExile

On the other hand, my BT internet does everything it's supposed to and every time I renew the contract it gets cheaper.