CEL PCN

TRNC

Fruitcake said:

Le_Kirk said:

TRNC said:

For context the keeper of the vehicle was given a postal PCN for not purchasing a ticket at the ticket machine (which ultimately would have been refunded as they shopped at the store which owns the car park) - unfortunately complaining at the store was unsuccessful. 

Did you actually purchase or attempt to purchase a ticket?  Was the PDT faulty or was there some other reason why the PPC are claiming you did not purchase a ticket?  Maybe it wasn't displayed, maybe it flipped, maybe you didn't input your VRM?

Did an occupant of the car actually purchase ...

Apologise for missing these. The occupant of the car did not purchase a ticket. Fruitcake said:

Is this the place?

Fortunately, the camera car entered the site.

The car park is tiny, about a dozen spaces in amongst the goods entrance for two or three shops with delivery vehicles and fork-lift trucks operating. The entrance signs are on the wall and the open gate, both at right angles to direction of travel, at the far end of the single track entrance road.

The pay machine is over the driver's right shoulder on the back wall as a car enters, and would not be visible, even on foot, if there was another vehicle parked in front of it.

Tariffs can be read on the GCV images, but the rest of the text is in small font. If there is a charge, it is buried in that small print, so it would need a site visit to determine what it actually says.

That is the place yes, however, the situation is slightly different now as the entrance is via the council car park (see picture below) your main points still stand and these are appreciated. They have pictures showing the vehicle entering and exiting from below entrance/exit point.
Umkomaas said:

Is the NtK PoFA compliant?  Many of the CEL ones have not been, but lately they seem to have plugged the gap in some NtKs. Check on the reverse of the NtK in the grey shaded area telling you about payment procedures. It begins something like 'If after 28 days ..... '  

Also please give us:

Date of the parking event
Date of Issue shown on the NtK. 

Yes the NtK does go into detail on the back about payment procedure starting with If, after 28 days. Parking event 09/01/2021 and issue shown on NtK is 13/01/2021.

TRNC

Pictures of the NtK for reference. 

Umkomaas

They seem to have plugged that gap now, so arguing PoFA non-compliance isn't going to help. 

TRNC

I have put together my PoPLA here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ULpqZkiGvcry4s9XkUXAgAzFQCILAwMVwsALZzYyC1g/edit?usp=sharing
I was unsure whether it was worth mentioning in the PoPLA that occupant in the car did spend over £5.00 in the store and so could have obtained a parking refund..if the signs were clear and conformed to BPA CoP etc.. 
Also due to my area being in further lockdown due to the South African variant I wasnt able to go and take pictures, other than those in google maps. Is it worth waiting another week until I can get those? 
Edit: Just noticed in the POPLA thread a decision for this exact car park, the user never made a thread so I can't see the example. But can I quote their case? 
The terms they challenged on were:
1. The notice to keeper is not compliant with POFA 2012 - No Keeper Liability
2. No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers - Proprietary Interest
3. The ANPR system is unreliable and neither synchronised nor accurate, there is no evidence to suggest the car has entered, parked, stayed for a period of time, and left the carpark. Further, there is no evidence that there was just one visit - Evidence
4. Not a genuine pre estimate of loss - case can be distinguished from Parking Eye v Beavis
5. Unfair term

Coupon-mad

The decision must be well out of date (pre-2015) if it included in the POPLA appeal, these old chestnuts:

4. Not a genuine pre estimate of loss - case can be distinguished from Parking Eye v Beavis
5. Unfair term

No, you can't use those since the Beavis case in 2015.

Yes, you can wait till day 32 to submit a POPLA appeal (IT'S NOT 28, DO NOT TELL US IT'S 28 DAYS NOR POINT US THE THE POPLA WEBSITE - thanks!)

TRNC

Coupon-mad said:

The decision must be well out of date (pre-2015) if it included in the POPLA appeal, these old chestnuts:

4. Not a genuine pre estimate of loss - case can be distinguished from Parking Eye v Beavis
5. Unfair term

No, you can't use those since the Beavis case in 2015.

Yes, you can wait till day 32 to submit a POPLA appeal (IT'S NOT 28, DO NOT TELL US IT'S 28 DAYS NOR POINT US THE THE POPLA WEBSITE - thanks!)

The case I mention in the POPLA thread was dismissed on18/01/2016. Thank you for confirming whether a previous POPLA case could be cited or not. 

Were you able to access my link with the POPLA appeal I have written up? 

Coupon-mad

Yes, it's really really old so I didn't read any further than the (far too many) headings and horrible intro that has ''I'' followed by that comma that some previous poster decided was good English, and too many people have copied - gaaah!

You are reading old appeals.   What is your main point, and can you simply put those facts as point #1 then use the templates from the NEWBIES tread post #3 underneath.  No-one bangs on about the Consumer Regs 2013 these days.

TRNC

Coupon-mad said:

Yes, it's really really old so I didn't read any further than the (far too many) headings and horrible intro that has ''I'' followed by that comma that some previous poster decided was good English, and too many people have copied - gaaah!

You are reading old appeals.   What is your main point, and can you simply put those facts as point #1 then use the templates from the NEWBIES tread post #3 underneath.  No-one bangs on about the Consumer Regs 2013 these days.

Ok thanks, strange as the basis of my POPLA is from a successful 2019 version for CEL. I will edit and re-post. 

Should it be included that occupant in the car did spend over £5.00 in the store and so could have obtained a parking refund..if the signs were clear and conformed to BPA CoP etc? Or is that more applicable to the defence stage (if it comes to it). 

1505grandad

Re BPA CoP  -  make sure you quote from the relevant version  -  the latest is V8 dated Jan 2020

Coupon-mad

You can include that, plus evidence if you have it.  Put all the facts in your own words as point #1.