18mo after moving into new build, told our garden fence temporary, will now lose 31.5msq

BigD74

I would imagine it is very difficult for builder A to change the designs and / or placement of the houses in plots A1 & A2. Planning permission would have been granted on current design & layout of the plots, and any changes will likely cause huge delays. 

If this were me, I would accept the inevitable and ask to be made whole for the costs of moving the fence and associated landscaping costs. Who will pay for it in the end is for A and R to agree between their solicitors (probably dependent on which one decided to put the fence in its current place?)

getmore4less

moneymattersnatter said:

The builder told me a 10m fence of the same quality currently costs £1,300.  This is a quote he just had this week.  I don't think he'd lie?  But I didn't think my sales agent, solicitor, conveyancer would be unprofessional either, so you may well be right in highlighting my vulnerability in this! 
Fair play to them, in their defence, they did recommend concrete posts but, honestly, I don't like how they look. He has used a membrane, like someone else said. I'm really grateful for you noting the propensity to rot though. I've often noticed that when it rains it dries last at the bottom. If I we are forced into moving the fence, it will definitely be on my wish list to remedy!  
Thanks again. 

You specified the fence?

Does that not make it the final fence

What was there before this fence?

Have you checked the planning when the larger site was split that should give a guide where the boundary between developers is. 

SaintJudy

A general question - do developers use GPS positioning for plots? I know when I work at festivals they use GPS positioning to mark out where everything is supposed to go in empty fields so I was just wondering if they did something similar

moneymattersnatter

badger09 said:

@moneymattersnatter
I'm really sorry you're going through this and don't have any useful advice on your specific boundary issue.
But, I would like to offer some non judgemental, meant-to-be-helpful advice as one of many on here going through stressful house sale/purchases.
Please try to keep your other (undoubtedly deeply traumatic) previous experiences out of your discussions with solicitors & the developers. While it helps explain why this is so difficult for you, it is irrelevant to them and IMHO, will not help you argue your case.
Hope you get this sorted very soon and can relax and enjoy your home. 

Thank you but our solicitor and my knowledge will agree to differ.  Under the Disability Discrimination Act, my medical condition is highly relevant here.  Sadly, I have previously lost work through PTSD episodes, and I am afforded 'reasonable adjustments' and legal protections with the diagnosis. Their actions are impacting my condition and they must factor that into their management of their error.  

frogglet

moneymattersnatter said:

badger09 said:

@moneymattersnatter
I'm really sorry you're going through this and don't have any useful advice on your specific boundary issue.
But, I would like to offer some non judgemental, meant-to-be-helpful advice as one of many on here going through stressful house sale/purchases.
Please try to keep your other (undoubtedly deeply traumatic) previous experiences out of your discussions with solicitors & the developers. While it helps explain why this is so difficult for you, it is irrelevant to them and IMHO, will not help you argue your case.
Hope you get this sorted very soon and can relax and enjoy your home. 

Thank you but our solicitor and my knowledge will agree to differ.  Under the Disability Discrimination Act, my medical condition is highly relevant here.  Sadly, I have previously lost work through PTSD episodes, and I am afforded 'reasonable adjustments' and legal protections with the diagnosis. Their actions are impacting my condition and they must factor that into their management of their error.  

Well , I would go back to your landscaper/builder and get him to sort out his overpriced garden landscaping and use the above as your reason, he has clearly ripped you off. 

moneymattersnatter

getmore4less said:

You specified the fence?

Does that not make it the final fence

What was there before this fence?

Have you checked the planning when the larger site was split that should give a guide where the boundary between developers is. 

I'm not sure If I'm answering your question here, but the fence at the back was always at the back, the fence at the side was always at the side.  The Landscaper recommended concrete posts, but I don't like the look so he recommended the membrane instead.  This was our garden 2019, when we'd instructed the work to be done.  it's hard to describe but the land sloped down from the TR corner down towards the house AND down towards the BL corner. 

I've learnt loads today.  There were protests about this site in 2012 and I've got the Council's docs back to preceding that date.  I attached an image earlier from their website.  Construction of this Phase for this developer meant we were one of the last ones on. Our house was very nearly built when we chose it.  The Council docs all remains consistent with everything else I've shared today (one of which was from the developer) and it all *looks* like what we have on the ground.

Open fields were here before the property development started. 

moneymattersnatter

Well , I would go back to your landscaper/builder and get him to sort out his overpriced garden landscaping and use the above as your reason, he has clearly ripped you off. 

We got three quotes and they were the best, so again, I may be daft but not that daft! 😜

frogglet

It looks like you have propped up tons of soil using a wooden fence, next to your neighbours gardens . What will you do when the wood rots and there is the amount of rain we have just had? 
However it seems you have a back up plan, good on you.

[Deleted User]

Sorry Im late to the situation. Firstly - what a nightmare for you when you want to enjoy your lovely new home ( and it is a beaut Redrow - Im well Jel ) 

The site manager being sent round to essentially gaslight you and make it out like you were fully aware of this situation from the start is shocking ! To me this shows they are fully aware of their mess up and the senior managers sent him round as he’s clearly Mr nice guy. 

It seems that your current boundary and the Land Registry plan match ? Yes ? Therefore currently everything is THEIR problem not yours, keep that close to your heart and mental health at all times. 

Developers have deep pockets. Someone will have to pay to sort this out. They either buy the land off you for a decent price ( lender will have to agree - so that cost may go to reduce your mortgage balance ) and they pay for new fences and they pay for new landscaping and they pay for the distress and inconvenience caused to you. 

My start point is everything from them must be in writing. No discussions. 

Literally imagine yourself arms crossed saying nope, lands mine, you want it ? You pay for it ( as above ) and do not move from that position. 

Have a practice ..... “ nope lands mine ...”
Good luck
At least the developer didnt knock on your door asking to bury a dead dog in your garden ! ( long running thread on here - worth a read if you have time )  ....
Dead dog thread 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6223749/house-buying-renting-selling-my-top-threads-of-all-time-guess-whats-number-one

its number one ! 

seradane

princeofpounds said:

I will say this again - all this measuring and comparison to the plan is (somewhat) futile. This is not how boundaries are determined. It's not even how surveyors measure land in a boundary dispute to find an official determined boundary - they rely much more upon fixed points of reference and angles, for starters, rather than lengths scaled up/down. I think someone was trying to scale up from the door marker on the plan earlier - pass me the rolling eyes emoji.

You have a registered title plan. You have a fence that to within a reasonable accuracy corresponds to the boundary of that title plan. The developer on the other side has happily built a car park and created their own boundary with the curtilage of their tarmac, showing tacit acceptance of that boundary. Your position at all times should be that you own the land and nothing will move, until you get into legal discussions or mediation. Anything else just has the potential to weaken your position.

It's great that you have legal cover, but don't expect too much from them compared to employing your own boundary specialist. They will often have a tendency to seek amicable settlement as soon as possible and keep costs low for the insurer, although that's not inevitable. I'm not saying settlement is bad, just that you need to find out your full legal position if you were to go to court PLUS be fully satisfied (or at least mostly satisfied) with any settlement that is negotiated.

 I beg to differ.

You'd be completely right if it was an older property with a historic title plan, and that was the only documentation (along with what's on site) as to what the actual situation is. Then of course it's based on what's been mutually treated as the boundary for 10 years, etc etc and the OP's fence would likely be accepted as the correct one. Fine.

But what we have here is developers who will have in their possession measured, vector drawings, which can identify the actual line of the boundary down to the millimetre, via GPS. There is a 'real' boundary here, somewhere on that site, that will be easily established once the dispute is raised. Of course none of us have this information, and all this measuring from plans is wildly inaccurate, but those plans have been produced from that accurate drawing, so in this case "measuring" will likely give you a fairly good indication of roughly what's correct or not.

Yes, a door swing is hardly a definitive answer, but it is a clue, along with the proportion of the rear fence, and comparisons to other comparable-appearing parts of the plan, as to whether the dimension of this passageway is accurate as it is shown on the plan or not.

We are aiming to give the OP more information so she can have some control over the situation and ask the right questions. I believe here the developer is correct in that the fence does not match the title plan. I do not say this so that the OP rolls over and lets them move the fence and ruin their garden without argument. I say this so that the OP can consider whether she wants to enter into a prolonged, stressful legal battle where she is unlikely to win, or whether she'd be better off aiming to negotiate a settlement.