Unhappy with builder's work- am I being reasonable?

keepclimbing

No I haven’t paid. 
I found the builder on Trustatrade.com. He’s a Which Trusted Trader as well...

greyteam1959

What an absolute mess !!
How these people get away with doing jobs like this I just don't know.
I feel for you.

Jeepers_Creepers

keepclimbing said:

Thanks, yeah I suspect I might be stuffed on the UH also. I didn’t request underfloor heating but it definitely was a factor in deciding to accept the quote. To be honest I would happily let that go if I was sure the floor had been done properly.

On the other points
- I don’t think it is level between the two doors. This is based on my eye and spirit level and I might be wrong but that’s how it looks.
- I’ve included screenshots from the quote/spec to show what I was expecting from the work.

- Unfortunately it is an ‘I don't know’ for the question if they have done all these steps. Great tip on the Legal Protection, thanks

Well, I may have been wrong on the 'asphalt' thing - that is mentioned on here as an alternative to epoxy. Would anyone really pour this layer over recently-laid concrete tho'?!

KC, my concern is really whether they have done the job they quoted for. Have they really dug it all out to 300mm depth? Laid hardcore - compacted down? Is there really a 100mm layer of rigid insulation in there? etc etc?

And, what is the truth about the finished level? You can find this out, KC - set your spirit level on the kitchen floor with one end in the dining room doorway - that's the starting level. Raise the other end and put something under it when it's exactly level. That end is now also at 'dining room floor' level, yes? Cool. Now repeat the process, moving one step closer to the garden door. Sit one end of the level on the old spacer, and add another spacer - when it's exactly level - at the far end. Work your way like this until you reach the garden door.

Would the garden door open?! If not, just how bad is it? What could you get away with - how far up could the floor be made (bearing in mind that the finished floor covering isn't down yet)? Did they discuss alternatives for this at any stage? Eg - door could be trimmed. New door fitted, etc.

3 issues to deal with as far as I can see;

1) Did they dig out the old and replace with new - did they follow their own schedule? Unless they can prove that they have, you will require independent assessment of this. I certainly wouldn't trust their word.

2) Could the floor be more level?

3) The non-existent UFH. Tbh, I think this must have been a genuine mistake - a typo. You didn't ask for this, and it presumably wasn't even discussed with them? It's just 4 words on the quote. Did you say to them "Oh! Great! UFH! Marvellous!" Did you say "We're going with your quote 'cos you are adding UFH?!" Did you say anything about something you never even asked for in the first place?

In which case, I really don't think you can hold them to that part. Perhaps, if their quote was higher than the others, and you still went for it because you genuinely believed they were including UFH - hence the higher price - you might just have a case of reclaiming however much extra their quote was over the others. I think it'll really come down to what was also discussed about this issue.

The other two issues are more important anyway...

Wanderingpomm

Cabinets propped up on skirting board? I wouldn’t be accepting that! 

DiddyDavies

keepclimbing said:

• In terms of the cabinets, he explained that someone had previously cut the legs off, so they had to pack them with wood to get them to height (if this is true, I have to say I've never noticed this)

Even if that is true, a decent builder would simply have replaced the legs.
Wickes Adjustable Plinth Feet 135-170mm Black Pack of 4 | Wickes.co.uk
£2.90 for a pack of four and someone in the trade could probably get them far cheaper.

If it was me, I would make sure that one of the cabinets is well supported then remove one or two of the legs to see if they have been previously cut off. If not, I would then take a couple of photographs to add to my evidence should it ever go to court.

keepclimbing

Jeepers_Creepers said:

keepclimbing said:

Thanks, yeah I suspect I might be stuffed on the UH also. I didn’t request underfloor heating but it definitely was a factor in deciding to accept the quote. To be honest I would happily let that go if I was sure the floor had been done properly.

On the other points
- I don’t think it is level between the two doors. This is based on my eye and spirit level and I might be wrong but that’s how it looks.
- I’ve included screenshots from the quote/spec to show what I was expecting from the work.

- Unfortunately it is an ‘I don't know’ for the question if they have done all these steps. Great tip on the Legal Protection, thanks

Well, I may have been wrong on the 'asphalt' thing - that is mentioned on here as an alternative to epoxy. Would anyone really pour this layer over recently-laid concrete tho'?!

KC, my concern is really whether they have done the job they quoted for. Have they really dug it all out to 300mm depth? Laid hardcore - compacted down? Is there really a 100mm layer of rigid insulation in there? etc etc?

And, what is the truth about the finished level? You can find this out, KC - set your spirit level on the kitchen floor with one end in the dining room doorway - that's the starting level. Raise the other end and put something under it when it's exactly level. That end is now also at 'dining room floor' level, yes? Cool. Now repeat the process, moving one step closer to the garden door. Sit one end of the level on the old spacer, and add another spacer - when it's exactly level - at the far end. Work your way like this until you reach the garden door.

Would the garden door open?! If not, just how bad is it? What could you get away with - how far up could the floor be made (bearing in mind that the finished floor covering isn't down yet)? Did they discuss alternatives for this at any stage? Eg - door could be trimmed. New door fitted, etc.

3 issues to deal with as far as I can see;

1) Did they dig out the old and replace with new - did they follow their own schedule? Unless they can prove that they have, you will require independent assessment of this. I certainly wouldn't trust their word.

2) Could the floor be more level?

3) The non-existent UFH. Tbh, I think this must have been a genuine mistake - a typo. You didn't ask for this, and it presumably wasn't even discussed with them? It's just 4 words on the quote. Did you say to them "Oh! Great! UFH! Marvellous!" Did you say "We're going with your quote 'cos you are adding UFH?!" Did you say anything about something you never even asked for in the first place?

In which case, I really don't think you can hold them to that part. Perhaps, if their quote was higher than the others, and you still went for it because you genuinely believed they were including UFH - hence the higher price - you might just have a case of reclaiming however much extra their quote was over the others. I think it'll really come down to what was also discussed about this issue.

The other two issues are more important anyway...

Great tip on working out the level, thanks.
I agree with you on the underfloor heating bit and I think I need to be pragmatic about it.
On the other two issues, I'm due to meet the builder onsite tomorrow to discuss them. The plan is then to ask him to set out his explanation of what he's done and what he's proposing to do to fix the issues in writing and then take from there. I'll then consider bringing someone in to give an independent view on the quality of the work.

You've been really helpful, thank you will keep you updated 

bpj

Doozergirl said:

I've seen some rubbish in my time but I've never seen asphalt laid inside a house!

Not arguing with the general sentiment, but mastic asphalt was a pretty common residential floor covering from the 40s to the 60s, and works quite well as a damp proof screed. Still an unusual decision to lay it in this context of course.

Jeepers_Creepers

bpj said:

Doozergirl said:

I've seen some rubbish in my time but I've never seen asphalt laid inside a house!

Not arguing with the general sentiment, but mastic asphalt was a pretty common residential floor covering from the 40s to the 60s, and works quite well as a damp proof screed. Still an unusual decision to lay it in this context of course.

To seemingly lay it on a freshly-laid concrete slab is double 'unusual'. I have a horrible feeling that they may have just coated the old floor to seal in the sulphate, in which case this would be criminal - and I don't mean figuratively.

Of course, I don't know whether this is actually the case. 

southcoastrgi

Do you know if he actually dug out anything at all, he wasn't doing a drive round the corner was he, tarmac on a kitchen floor 🤣🤣
the worktop on the left in the last pic was joined to another section which is why it's got a masons mitre on it,
I hope his horse didn't eat too many of your flowers 

Jeepers_Creepers

I'd bet that somewhere on this planet someone has done that - tarmacked their house floors as a design statement.