Unhappy with builder's work- am I being reasonable?

Doozergirl

Can you take some wider angle pictures, please? 

£5k doesn't sound like enough money to completely dig out the floor, refit to building regs, add underfloor heating (what kind - electric or wet?) and fit a kitchen...

Have building control been out if the floor was being replaced?  It's an upgrade, so it may actually be that they're not required, but I think I'd do it anyway so I had the paperwork for future buyers.  

I can't work out what the screed is.  It looks a bit dark for concrete? 

TELLIT01

What form was the underfloor heating to take?  Was it a wet system, linking into existing central heating or a dry, electric system? 

FreeBear

Doozergirl said: I can't work out what the screed is.  It looks a bit dark for concrete?

The OP said it was an asphalt in the opening post. Not the sort of thing I would expect in a domestic kitchen....

Jeepers_Creepers

I'd missed the underfloor heating bit! Lawdie...

OP, you need evidence of the insulation under the floor, evidence of the UF heating installed, and a bludy good reason for them to have not levelled the kitchen floor. Failing that, you do not hand over a PENNY, because there's a very good chance this whole job will need to be completely redone.

If they cannot provide the necessary evidence, I strongly suspect you'll need to get someone in to check it.

The visible part of their work - bits of skirting under the unit legs etc - is very very worrying, and is not an indication of a professional outfit. At all.

Jeepers_Creepers

FreeBear said:

Doozergirl said: I can't work out what the screed is.  It looks a bit dark for concrete?

The OP said it was an asphalt in the opening post. Not the sort of thing I would expect in a domestic kitchen....

Only one reason to use asphalt I can think of - to seal the original surface and hopefully 'sort' the issue. A properly relaid floor - screed, DPM, screed, insulation, top layer - should not require asphalt over it. In fact it would be counter-productive as it would seal in any contained damp.

Worrying and worryinger.

Jeepers_Creepers

KC, what was the evidence for the 'sulphate attack'? Who told you what was happening and how to sort it?

keepclimbing

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice on this
I've just had a frank phone call with the builder to run through my concerns. It basically seems that he doesn't think there are any problems (aside from the fridge gap where he has said he would come out and adjust the cabinets). He explained:

• asphalt was used because he thought I needed to get back in the house asap and it would have taken ages for another surface to dry. (I explained he should have asked me about this and not assumed)
• He explained that asphalt will never be level and that he took a levelling average between the two doors. He explained that if the floor rose to the back door then I wouldn't have been able to open it. He emailed over some guidance about tolerances which he says explains why what they have done is fine. He did say that he would come out and seal the gap at the back step if I wanted him to
• In terms of the cabinets, he explained that someone had previously cut the legs off, so they had to pack them with wood to get them to height (if this is true, I have to say I've never noticed this)
• He explained that the underfloor heating is a typo and he meant to write 'underfloor insulation'. He said that the report and recommendations (with the quote) never mentioned UH (which is true). He explained that if they installed UH then my boiler would 'blow up', which made me chuckle.

Overall I feel fobbed off. I've asked him to put his explanations in an email and to come out and meet me at the house this week so we can have a look in more detail. I explained that I wasn't at all happy with the quality of the work and that I was considering going to Citizens Advice (when I mentioned this he told me there was no point, as they would only tell me to contact the builder). The plan is now to ask him to do it again but I'm not sure what to do if he refuses and I don't really know how to handle the UH aspect.
Sorry this is such a long post, but just to ask a quick question and pick up on a couple of your points:

• If he refuses to do the work again, should I consider getting someone out to give an independent view? (e.g. surveyor)
• If(?!) the UH aspect is actually a typo, what are my rights? I did think this was something I was getting and it's not really my fault he wrote it. 
• DoozerGirl- I'll take some wider pics when I go back this week. I did some research online and found that building control approval wasn't required (as you say it might have been a prudent thing to do anyway)
• JeepersCreepers- What sort of evidence should I be asking for? Would I expect that the builder should take pictures whilst doing the work? Should I ask for invoices for the insulation etc? 
• The sulphate attack was identified by a couple of surveyors once I started to notice bumping in the floor. There weren't any core samples taken but the surveyors seemed pretty sure (for what it's worth) 

Jeepers_Creepers

Blimey, what a mess.

Ok, what on earth was quoted for and requested/expected from you? Genuinely? Let's see the paperwork.

Did YOU ask for underfloor heating? If not, and if it's therefore obviously a typo as the builder claims, then I suspect you are stuffed.  To be frank, I don't see how you weren't going to get that included for £5k. Again, if you HAD asked/expected it, what type would it have been - taken from your 'wet' system or electrical? If no-one ran these options through with you, then it seems pretty clear you were never going to get it.

His 'asphalt' reasoning is BS. If he had carried out the work that he was supposed to have done - remove the existing floor slab and relay a new one (according to what you tell us) -  then asphalt wouldn't have played a part anywhere in this.

I cannot comment on the levels - I asked you if the level taken from the dining room would have impacted on the garden door and you said 'no' and he says 'yes'. Which is it? If the latter, then you might need a new door...

My real concern is, he was tasked with REMOVING the existing problematic slab and relaying a new one, complete with insulation to current regs (and having has this done a few months back, I recall the rigid insulation was 100mm thick). So, has he done this? Ye or no? If it's 'I don't know', then you do need someone else to come in and do a test bore or summat to determine.

Do you have Legal Protection in your house insurance? Yes? Cool - call them up right away and they'll guide you.

Meanwhile, don't give these guys a penny. We don't know the facts here, but they already give cause for concern - their reasoning for the use of asphalt, and also silly emotive stuff like boilers blowing up. A very strong whiff of BS, and a stronger smack of cowboy.

IF all they'll effectively done is remove your units, coat the floor in asphalt, and refit the units, then you have been mightily robbed. I'm talking criminally so.

keepclimbing

Thanks, yeah I suspect I might be stuffed on the UH also. I didn’t request underfloor heating but it definitely was a factor in deciding to accept the quote. To be honest I would happily let that go if I was sure the floor had been done properly.

On the other points
- I don’t think it is level between the two doors. This is based on my eye and spirit level and I might be wrong but that’s how it looks.
- I’ve included screenshots from the quote/spec to show what I was expecting from the work.

- Unfortunately it is an ‘I don't know’ for the question if they have done all these steps. Great tip on the Legal Protection, thanks

Doozergirl

Have you paid?    Don't pay.  Let him see you in court and you can counter sue for the additional work now required.   No professional witness would say that was any standard of work at all.  

I have serious concerns about asking him to anything.    And I do pretty much always advocate allowing people to rectify.  I've seen some rubbish in my time but I've never seen asphalt laid inside a house! 

Laying a new solid floor inside  a house 'to building regs' means following a really rather rigid set of rules as to what goes into it.  Nothing goes 'onto' the existing floor, for a start.   Not only that, but the original problem floor is still underneath and still has a the same problem, you've now got more to dig out.  

What you have does not reflect what was written down by any means.  

Where did you find this person?!  Due diligence is absolute key before hiring anyone.  Turning up just to check on your own house is perfectly acceptable during this lockdown.  It's an essential business meeting that can't take place at home.  

This stuff makes me despair.  Why the hell aren't builders on a register?  I'm on an area board of the FMB who lobby for it as it would benefit us to not have our reputations constantly called into question whilst people are happy to hire people like this.