Hastings Direct Insurance Cancelled because of a 'Number of Quotes Using Different Details'

elsien

To be fair to the OP I have just had to play around with the mileage on my insurance as well - due to covid my business mileage has dropped by a huge amount, I don't know when it will get back to anywhere near what it was before so I was trying to work out the middle ground in terms of what I might need, when and the difference in cost. Admittedly I didn't change any other vital information but I don't think looking at different mileages in the current circumstances is unreasonable. 

Dosty

eddddy said:

FWIW, Hastings did this to somebody I know.

In that case, they were working in shop, but had a place at university in 4 months time. They intended to tell Hastings about the change of occupation and location when it occurred in 4 months time - but, in the meantime, wanted an indication of how much premiums might increase. So they got quotes for the different occupations and the different home addresses.

Hastings subsequently cancelled the policy for suspected fraud.

Perhaps the difference in this case was that the policyholder didn't accept the cancellation and buy a new policy. Instead, they challenged Hastings about it (or rather the policy holder's father did, who happened to be a lawyer) and explained the circumstances. After a couple of days, Hastings agreed to reinstate the policy - so no cancellation was recorded.

Do you remember where/how they challenged it? Maybe I could try to explain my circumstances and see if that helps, when I tried to explain myself to the agent who called about the cancellation of my first policy, he didn't offer any help and only directed me to the second agent who offered to give me a second policy. 

TELLIT01

elsien said:

To be fair to the OP I have just had to play around with the mileage on my insurance as well - due to covid my business mileage has dropped by a huge amount, I don't know when it will get back to anywhere near what it was before so I was trying to work out the middle ground in terms of what I might need, when and the difference in cost. Admittedly I didn't change any other vital information but I don't think looking at different mileages in the current circumstances is unreasonable. 

I doubt there would have been a problem if the OP had simply been changing expected mileage to compare costs.  Adding an additional driver first with on claims or convictions, then with just a claim, and then with claim and conviction is far more likely to be the cause of the problems.

eddddy

Dosty said:

eddddy said:

FWIW, Hastings did this to somebody I know.

In that case, they were working in shop, but had a place at university in 4 months time. They intended to tell Hastings about the change of occupation and location when it occurred in 4 months time - but, in the meantime, wanted an indication of how much premiums might increase. So they got quotes for the different occupations and the different home addresses.

Hastings subsequently cancelled the policy for suspected fraud.

Perhaps the difference in this case was that the policyholder didn't accept the cancellation and buy a new policy. Instead, they challenged Hastings about it (or rather the policy holder's father did, who happened to be a lawyer) and explained the circumstances. After a couple of days, Hastings agreed to reinstate the policy - so no cancellation was recorded.

Do you remember where/how they challenged it? Maybe I could try to explain my circumstances and see if that helps, when I tried to explain myself to the agent who called about the cancellation of my first policy, he didn't offer any help and only directed me to the second agent who offered to give me a second policy. 

They only told me sketchy info. I think they just challenged it over the phone - they may have described it as a complaint. The person they spoke to said they would pass the information on to an underwriter. A day or two later, Hastings called back to say that the policy would be re-instated.

Dosty

TELLIT01 said:

elsien said:

To be fair to the OP I have just had to play around with the mileage on my insurance as well - due to covid my business mileage has dropped by a huge amount, I don't know when it will get back to anywhere near what it was before so I was trying to work out the middle ground in terms of what I might need, when and the difference in cost. Admittedly I didn't change any other vital information but I don't think looking at different mileages in the current circumstances is unreasonable. 

I doubt there would have been a problem if the OP had simply been changing expected mileage to compare costs.  Adding an additional driver first with on claims or convictions, then with just a claim, and then with claim and conviction is far more likely to be the cause of the problems.

But regardless, it's not like I added the claim first and then took it away, I added it and then left it. Is that really enough of a reason for them to rightfully outright cancel my policy without checking with me first? 

dunstonh

 I also think this has to come back further to the fundamentals of contract law. Requesting a price for a good or service confers absolutely no responsibility whatsoever on the party making the request.

If you are going to start quoting contract law then you should check the contract you entered into on the quote site.   They usually say you must input the information truthfully.

The ability to requote on different options is not a problem with most of the questions asked.  However, the insurers do put anti-fraud measures on certain questions where material facts are being changed.

Adding your dad vs not adding him would not trigger anti-fraud measures.   Adding him with convictions/claims and without could.  Although they would probably allow one edit to cater for mistakes.    A second change would likely trigger an increased premium or rejection.

Minor mileage changes would not normally trigger a rejection.  However, a large difference could.  And there is the impact of multiple changes where one by itself may not be an issue but when you get 3 material fact changes, it would.

 I got an email that my policy was cancelled on the 15th of January because I 'carried out a number of quotes using different details', and when I called them, they cited the miles and the claims + conviction as the reason. I never changed any details about the car, nor my occupation, nor my home address. 

That is the expected outcome and matches expectation.   The details you didn't change are irrelevent.

 I checked with them if it's okay that I had the first one cancelled with them, and they said yes that is fine, and gave me a new policy. Yesterday (14th of January), I get a phone call and get told that they have to cancel the second policy on 16th of January because they were never supposed to give me it in the first place since my first one was cancelled by them, and that I need to look for a different insurer. 

That was a mistake by them.  

1. Firstly, it seems like a really unfair reason to cancel my policy the first time around when I did not lie or anything, and the only things I changed around were the mileage while still on the comparison website. 

You did lie.  It may have been unintentional but you declared that the information given was correct when it wasn't.  it was inadvertent non-disclosure.

2. Secondly, they straight up lied to me when they were giving me the second policy and they have given me couple of days of notice. This is a big issue for me because I am a medical student and I need to get to my hospital placement next Monday. 

Isnt this a bit double standards on your part?   You are effectively saying that whenyou make a mistake, its not a lie but when they make a mistake its a lie.    They made a mistake.  They did not lie.

3. Thirdly, they added the cancellation on the insurance database which means that my future policy will be significantly more, almost twice as much, expensive. 

Only if you use comparison sites which do not cover circumstances but price on black and white data.   Try a broker and you should find things are not so bad.

 Can I file a formal complaint, or even take it straight to an ombudsman, and get that cancellation revoked? 

The FOS cannot force Hastings to offer cover.    You cannot ask the FOS to look at it until the formal complaints process has been gone through (or 8 weeks from first registering your complaint).  The FOS is not a consumer champion.  It is an independent arbiter of complaints where a deadlock has occurred (ie. you disagree and wont accept the company response).

Complaining is really your only option but this doesnt prevent you getting insurance by alternative methods.   And you must not go down the route of trying to quote contract terms with them as they can throw that right back at you as you did breach the contract terms when getting the quotes.   You need to explain to them what happened.
The front line staff at firms generally do not have permission to deviate from the company rules.  Those behind the scenes, and in particular the complaints team, do.   You want to get the complaints handler on your side.  Going in all guns blazing and blaming them when you are at fault for the initial bit is not the way to do it.  The fact they made a mistake helps you as you can say that it shows that mistakes are possible.

And in the meantime, speak with a broker (not Swinton) and see how you get on.

Dosty

dunstonh said:

 I also think this has to come back further to the fundamentals of contract law. Requesting a price for a good or service confers absolutely no responsibility whatsoever on the party making the request.

If you are going to start quoting contract law then you should check the contract you entered into on the quote site.   They usually say you must input the information truthfully.

The ability to requote on different options is not a problem with most of the questions asked.  However, the insurers do put anti-fraud measures on certain questions where material facts are being changed.

Adding your dad vs not adding him would not trigger anti-fraud measures.   Adding him with convictions/claims and without could.  Although they would probably allow one edit to cater for mistakes.    A second change would likely trigger an increased premium or rejection.

Minor mileage changes would not normally trigger a rejection.  However, a large difference could.  And there is the impact of multiple changes where one by itself may not be an issue but when you get 3 material fact changes, it would.

 I got an email that my policy was cancelled on the 15th of January because I 'carried out a number of quotes using different details', and when I called them, they cited the miles and the claims + conviction as the reason. I never changed any details about the car, nor my occupation, nor my home address. 

That is the expected outcome and matches expectation.   The details you didn't change are irrelevent.

 I checked with them if it's okay that I had the first one cancelled with them, and they said yes that is fine, and gave me a new policy. Yesterday (14th of January), I get a phone call and get told that they have to cancel the second policy on 16th of January because they were never supposed to give me it in the first place since my first one was cancelled by them, and that I need to look for a different insurer. 

That was a mistake by them.  

1. Firstly, it seems like a really unfair reason to cancel my policy the first time around when I did not lie or anything, and the only things I changed around were the mileage while still on the comparison website. 

You did lie.  It may have been unintentional but you declared that the information given was correct when it wasn't.  it was inadvertent non-disclosure.

2. Secondly, they straight up lied to me when they were giving me the second policy and they have given me couple of days of notice. This is a big issue for me because I am a medical student and I need to get to my hospital placement next Monday. 

Isnt this a bit double standards on your part?   You are effectively saying that whenyou make a mistake, its not a lie but when they make a mistake its a lie.    They made a mistake.  They did not lie.

3. Thirdly, they added the cancellation on the insurance database which means that my future policy will be significantly more, almost twice as much, expensive. 

Only if you use comparison sites which do not cover circumstances but price on black and white data.   Try a broker and you should find things are not so bad.

 Can I file a formal complaint, or even take it straight to an ombudsman, and get that cancellation revoked? 

The FOS cannot force Hastings to offer cover.    You cannot ask the FOS to look at it until the formal complaints process has been gone through (or 8 weeks from first registering your complaint).  The FOS is not a consumer champion.  It is an independent arbiter of complaints where a deadlock has occurred (ie. you disagree and wont accept the company response).

Complaining is really your only option but this doesnt prevent you getting insurance by alternative methods.   And you must not go down the route of trying to quote contract terms with them as they can throw that right back at you as you did breach the contract terms when getting the quotes.   You need to explain to them what happened.
The front line staff at firms generally have permission to deviate from the company rules.  Those behind the scenes, and in particular the complaints team, do.   You want to get the complaints handler on your side.  Going in all guns blazing and blaming them when you are at fault for the initial bit is not the way to do it.  The fact they made a mistake helps you as you can say that it shows that mistakes are possible.

And in the meantime, speak with a broker (not Swinton) and see how you get on.

Yeah I admit that I did unintentionally lie when getting the quote on a comparison website, but I didn't lie when I was finally paying for the actual quote and so my mistake did not lead to a contract based on false information being set in place. Their mistake led to a contract that was not supposed to be put in place in the first place. So I don't think it's double standards necessarily as the magnitudes of the mistakes are very different. However, I do agree and accept that the initial part was my mistake, I am not going to dispute that. 

Having said that, do I have grounds to make a complaint even though the initial mistake was made by me since I corrected that mistake and gave the correct information? 

dunstonh

Dosty said:

dunstonh said:

 I also think this has to come back further to the fundamentals of contract law. Requesting a price for a good or service confers absolutely no responsibility whatsoever on the party making the request.

If you are going to start quoting contract law then you should check the contract you entered into on the quote site.   They usually say you must input the information truthfully.

The ability to requote on different options is not a problem with most of the questions asked.  However, the insurers do put anti-fraud measures on certain questions where material facts are being changed.

Adding your dad vs not adding him would not trigger anti-fraud measures.   Adding him with convictions/claims and without could.  Although they would probably allow one edit to cater for mistakes.    A second change would likely trigger an increased premium or rejection.

Minor mileage changes would not normally trigger a rejection.  However, a large difference could.  And there is the impact of multiple changes where one by itself may not be an issue but when you get 3 material fact changes, it would.

 I got an email that my policy was cancelled on the 15th of January because I 'carried out a number of quotes using different details', and when I called them, they cited the miles and the claims + conviction as the reason. I never changed any details about the car, nor my occupation, nor my home address. 

That is the expected outcome and matches expectation.   The details you didn't change are irrelevent.

 I checked with them if it's okay that I had the first one cancelled with them, and they said yes that is fine, and gave me a new policy. Yesterday (14th of January), I get a phone call and get told that they have to cancel the second policy on 16th of January because they were never supposed to give me it in the first place since my first one was cancelled by them, and that I need to look for a different insurer. 

That was a mistake by them.  

1. Firstly, it seems like a really unfair reason to cancel my policy the first time around when I did not lie or anything, and the only things I changed around were the mileage while still on the comparison website. 

You did lie.  It may have been unintentional but you declared that the information given was correct when it wasn't.  it was inadvertent non-disclosure.

2. Secondly, they straight up lied to me when they were giving me the second policy and they have given me couple of days of notice. This is a big issue for me because I am a medical student and I need to get to my hospital placement next Monday. 

Isnt this a bit double standards on your part?   You are effectively saying that whenyou make a mistake, its not a lie but when they make a mistake its a lie.    They made a mistake.  They did not lie.

3. Thirdly, they added the cancellation on the insurance database which means that my future policy will be significantly more, almost twice as much, expensive. 

Only if you use comparison sites which do not cover circumstances but price on black and white data.   Try a broker and you should find things are not so bad.

 Can I file a formal complaint, or even take it straight to an ombudsman, and get that cancellation revoked? 

The FOS cannot force Hastings to offer cover.    You cannot ask the FOS to look at it until the formal complaints process has been gone through (or 8 weeks from first registering your complaint).  The FOS is not a consumer champion.  It is an independent arbiter of complaints where a deadlock has occurred (ie. you disagree and wont accept the company response).

Complaining is really your only option but this doesnt prevent you getting insurance by alternative methods.   And you must not go down the route of trying to quote contract terms with them as they can throw that right back at you as you did breach the contract terms when getting the quotes.   You need to explain to them what happened.
The front line staff at firms generally have permission to deviate from the company rules.  Those behind the scenes, and in particular the complaints team, do.   You want to get the complaints handler on your side.  Going in all guns blazing and blaming them when you are at fault for the initial bit is not the way to do it.  The fact they made a mistake helps you as you can say that it shows that mistakes are possible.

And in the meantime, speak with a broker (not Swinton) and see how you get on.

Yeah I admit that I did unintentionally lie when getting the quote on a comparison website, but I didn't lie when I was finally paying for the actual quote and so my mistake did not lead to a contract based on false information being set in place. Their mistake led to a contract that was not supposed to be put in place in the first place. So I don't think it's double standards necessarily as the magnitudes of the mistakes are very different. However, I do agree and accept that the initial part was my mistake, I am not going to dispute that. 

Having said that, do I have grounds to make a complaint even though the initial mistake was made by me since I corrected that mistake and gave the correct information? 

Grounds for complaint?   Yes.   They should not have set up the second plan after saying it was fine to do so.    
Whether it will change anything, I do not know because the first policy was still cancelled based on your mistake.  The second one was cancelled based on their mistake.

When making the complaint, be graceful in accepting what you did was wrong but that you didn't realise at the time and corrected it once you found out and that you did not make the application based on false information.  Then point out that their mistake as a good example of mistakes can happen to anyone and then request they remove the cancellations from the records.    
You could also state that if they were not happy with the multiple quotes then they shouldn't have offered terms in the first place (most insurers will alter premiums or refuse to offer quote at all before you buy - not carry out further underwriting decisions after you have purchased).   If they had said no before you bought it there would be no issue for either side.  But by saying no after you bought it, you are being penalised for their systems being inefficient.          Again, keep the tone conciliatory.  Not aggressive but don't be afraid to make a valid point.  Just avoid being forceful on a point where you are the one in the wrong.

naedanger

I don't see how getting multiple quotes alone can lead an insurer to conclude the customer was dishonest. I can see why it might trigger an investigation, or why it might cause them to conclude non-disclosure was deliberate if they can show there was non disclosure.

I might well get a number of quotes based on different mileage. A first couple to see how sensitive the price is to mileage, so I might go +50% and -50% of my expected mileage. If the price wasn't sensitive I would pick a conservative mileage without much thought. On the other hand if the price varied significantly I might do a number of quotes for different scenarios e.g. I go some routes via other means, perhaps decide I will definitely only go one long trip during the year, then decide no I think I can afford two long trips what would that cost, might decide I need to take bus more etc. However once I had decided I would then be careful to operate within the mileage I had insured. My car MOT and service invoices record mileage, so if I was lying I could be found out and would then be in all sorts of difficulty should I have an accident (especially a serious one) so I would not risk insurance fraud.

As regards putting through claim vs no claim etc. The test is simply whether the information on the quote you accepted was accurate. If you said no claims and that was true then the fact you had previously asked for a quote assuming there was a claim does not matter. If it wasn't accurate and you did have a claim then I can understand why the insurer might conclude the non-disclosure was deliberate if they had evidence you first asked for a quote based on the true position before accepting a quote based on false information.

I would complain to the company then FOS. Unfortunately you just have to live with the timescales.

Dosty

dunstonh said:

Dosty said:

dunstonh said:

 I also think this has to come back further to the fundamentals of contract law. Requesting a price for a good or service confers absolutely no responsibility whatsoever on the party making the request.

If you are going to start quoting contract law then you should check the contract you entered into on the quote site.   They usually say you must input the information truthfully.

The ability to requote on different options is not a problem with most of the questions asked.  However, the insurers do put anti-fraud measures on certain questions where material facts are being changed.

Adding your dad vs not adding him would not trigger anti-fraud measures.   Adding him with convictions/claims and without could.  Although they would probably allow one edit to cater for mistakes.    A second change would likely trigger an increased premium or rejection.

Minor mileage changes would not normally trigger a rejection.  However, a large difference could.  And there is the impact of multiple changes where one by itself may not be an issue but when you get 3 material fact changes, it would.

 I got an email that my policy was cancelled on the 15th of January because I 'carried out a number of quotes using different details', and when I called them, they cited the miles and the claims + conviction as the reason. I never changed any details about the car, nor my occupation, nor my home address. 

That is the expected outcome and matches expectation.   The details you didn't change are irrelevent.

 I checked with them if it's okay that I had the first one cancelled with them, and they said yes that is fine, and gave me a new policy. Yesterday (14th of January), I get a phone call and get told that they have to cancel the second policy on 16th of January because they were never supposed to give me it in the first place since my first one was cancelled by them, and that I need to look for a different insurer. 

That was a mistake by them.  

1. Firstly, it seems like a really unfair reason to cancel my policy the first time around when I did not lie or anything, and the only things I changed around were the mileage while still on the comparison website. 

You did lie.  It may have been unintentional but you declared that the information given was correct when it wasn't.  it was inadvertent non-disclosure.

2. Secondly, they straight up lied to me when they were giving me the second policy and they have given me couple of days of notice. This is a big issue for me because I am a medical student and I need to get to my hospital placement next Monday. 

Isnt this a bit double standards on your part?   You are effectively saying that whenyou make a mistake, its not a lie but when they make a mistake its a lie.    They made a mistake.  They did not lie.

3. Thirdly, they added the cancellation on the insurance database which means that my future policy will be significantly more, almost twice as much, expensive. 

Only if you use comparison sites which do not cover circumstances but price on black and white data.   Try a broker and you should find things are not so bad.

 Can I file a formal complaint, or even take it straight to an ombudsman, and get that cancellation revoked? 

The FOS cannot force Hastings to offer cover.    You cannot ask the FOS to look at it until the formal complaints process has been gone through (or 8 weeks from first registering your complaint).  The FOS is not a consumer champion.  It is an independent arbiter of complaints where a deadlock has occurred (ie. you disagree and wont accept the company response).

Complaining is really your only option but this doesnt prevent you getting insurance by alternative methods.   And you must not go down the route of trying to quote contract terms with them as they can throw that right back at you as you did breach the contract terms when getting the quotes.   You need to explain to them what happened.
The front line staff at firms generally have permission to deviate from the company rules.  Those behind the scenes, and in particular the complaints team, do.   You want to get the complaints handler on your side.  Going in all guns blazing and blaming them when you are at fault for the initial bit is not the way to do it.  The fact they made a mistake helps you as you can say that it shows that mistakes are possible.

And in the meantime, speak with a broker (not Swinton) and see how you get on.

Yeah I admit that I did unintentionally lie when getting the quote on a comparison website, but I didn't lie when I was finally paying for the actual quote and so my mistake did not lead to a contract based on false information being set in place. Their mistake led to a contract that was not supposed to be put in place in the first place. So I don't think it's double standards necessarily as the magnitudes of the mistakes are very different. However, I do agree and accept that the initial part was my mistake, I am not going to dispute that. 

Having said that, do I have grounds to make a complaint even though the initial mistake was made by me since I corrected that mistake and gave the correct information? 

Grounds for complaint?   Yes.   They should not have set up the second plan after saying it was fine to do so.    
Whether it will change anything, I do not know because the first policy was still cancelled based on your mistake.  The second one was cancelled based on their mistake.

When making the complaint, be graceful in accepting what you did was wrong but that you didn't realise at the time and corrected it once you found out and that you did not make the application based on false information.  Then point out that their mistake as a good example of mistakes can happen to anyone and then request they remove the cancellations from the records.    
You could also state that if they were not happy with the multiple quotes then they shouldn't have offered terms in the first place (most insurers will alter premiums or refuse to offer quote at all before you buy - not carry out further underwriting decisions after you have purchased).   If they had said no before you bought it there would be no issue for either side.  But by saying no after you bought it, you are being penalised for their systems being inefficient.          Again, keep the tone conciliatory.  Not aggressive but don't be afraid to make a valid point.  Just avoid being forceful on a point where you are the one in the wrong.

Thank you for the tips! I have just talked to their customer relations team and they told me that I do not need to disclose the second policy cancellation, however they said that the disclosure about the first cancellation depends on the new insurance company that I want to take out my insurance with. When I talked to a couple of companies yesterday, they told me to check with Hastings whether it's something that I need to disclose, and when I talked to Admiral, they said that the nature of the cancellation doesn't matter and that I should disclose it regardless. So I am confused here in regards to what I should do as Hastings are not able to tell whether I need to disclose this or not. Is there not a way to find out whether they are sharing the history of the cancellation with other insurers?