Hastings Direct Insurance Cancelled because of a 'Number of Quotes Using Different Details'

Dosty

Hello, 

I wanted to ask for some advice about an issue with my car insurance from Hastings Direct. This was my first car insurance and we were originally thinking of going for a black box insurance. Thus, while on comparison sites such as GoCompare, we were changing the mileage around a few times between 3000 and 5000 miles per year because we didn't want to underestimate and then have to buy more miles, but we also didn't want to overestimate and unnecessarily pay for more miles than I would need. We were looking for a cost-effective middle ground here. I also put my dad as a second driver so that he could drive me to University so I wouldn't have to driver 3 hours on a motorway 4 days after passing my test. Originally, I didn't add any claims or convictions but then I was told by my mum that he was a victim of an accident in which no claims were made, so I added that, and then I was told that he has conviction due to speeding, so I added that. In the end, we decided to not go for a black box insurance and look for a normal one. Before finally choosing an insurance, I also changed the miles once to 10,000 miles out of genuine curiosity, wondering how much I would pay if I were to travel as much as my dad. Before submitting the quote and going to the insurer's website from GoCompare, I changed it back down to 5000 miles of course. After a few days with Hastings Direct, I got an email that my policy was cancelled on the 15th of January because I 'carried out a number of quotes using different details', and when I called them, they cited the miles and the claims + conviction as the reason. I never changed any details about the car, nor my occupation, nor my home address. 
I was annoyed of course and called them asking if I could get a new insurance with them since this cancellation seemed really unfair as I had no malicious intent and did not lie. They offered me a new insurance. I checked with them if it's okay that I had the first one cancelled with them, and they said yes that is fine, and gave me a new policy. Yesterday (14th of January), I get a phone call and get told that they have to cancel the second policy on 16th of January because they were never supposed to give me it in the first place since my first one was cancelled by them, and that I need to look for a different insurer. I asked them if they added the fact that my policy was cancelled on the insurance database, and they said yes that they have and that I will have to disclose this in the future. 
Now when I look at taking a new insurance, I have to pay £3,168 instead of £1,783 because of that cancellation.

Here's a list of my issues:
1. Firstly, it seems like a really unfair reason to cancel my policy the first time around when I did not lie or anything, and the only things I changed around were the mileage while still on the comparison website. 
2. Secondly, they straight up lied to me when they were giving me the second policy and they have given me couple of days of notice. This is a big issue for me because I am a medical student and I need to get to my hospital placement next Monday. 
3. Thirdly, they added the cancellation on the insurance database which means that my future policy will be significantly more, almost twice as much, expensive. 

What can I do here? Can I file a formal complaint, or even take it straight to an ombudsman, and get that cancellation revoked? I came across a person on this forum (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5838104/insurance-cancelled-because-of-multiple-different-quotes/p1) who had a very similar issue, and after a month, Hastings Direct declared that they were wrong about the cancellation, but I don't know whether the cancellation was revoked and their policy was reinstated.

I could try and file a formal complaint, but on their website they say they can take up to 8 weeks to resolve the complaint. Since I need to travel to my placement, in those 8 weeks I would spend around £200 on public transport, which is also a risk in the case that they don't reinstate my policy and I have wasted another £200 which could've gone towards a new policy. Or, I could go for a new policy with Admiral who offered a multi-car insurance which would get my premiums down to £2343, but that is also with a higher voluntary excess (£500, £700 in total) than I would like, so that I could drive now again. However, if I do that and then Hastings Direct do admit their fault, I don't really get much out of it since I am already paying for a significantly more expensive insurance. 

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do please? Am I in the position of right and Hastings Direct in the position of wrong so I can actually fight my corner? If I can fight this, should I use public transport in the meantime with the risk of losing £200 if the cancellation doesn't get revoked, or should I go with Admiral now and hope for some sort of financial apology from Hastings Direct (although this would need to be worth like £1000 to cover my costs), or is there another temporary solution? If I don't get the cancellation revoked, is this something that I need to declare for the rest of my life? Any advice is very welcome, I am quite desperate here! Thank you!

Sandtree

The FOS only consider complaints after the original company has given you their final response or 8 weeks have passed since you logged the complaint. There is no way to bypass this process.

One of the problems you will have is that you played around with one element that is exceptionally hard to prove what the correct answer is (mileage) and especially as you dont have years of previous driving experience to bring forward as evidence. The details of your additional driver can easily be dismissed, you quoted based on the knowledge you had and corrected the position to a more adverse situation when you became aware of it. Ideally you should have got all the facts before quoting but thats life and you can substantiate via your fathers license etc that the situation is no worse than you declared on the quote that you actually purchased.

Your argument clearly has to be that their response of cancelling your policy, and the known knock on impacts thats going to have on you is disproportional to the act of seeing what the impact of having a higher mileage would have caused. If you can share your rational for thinking 5,000 miles is the appropriate number that could also help given it is on the low side. 

Possibly unknown to you but your attempts at testing insurance pricing most likely failed anyway as most insurers now have counter fraud mechanisms built into their systems so if they think people are trying to manipulate quotes they either increase premiums to reflect the increased risk or stop quoting... so add your 3rd named driver and requote shows a jump in premiums that could be because of counter fraud and nothing to do with the named driver.

If you buy a new policy before your complaint is resolved be sure a) that the new insurer is fully aware of both cancellations and b) clarify if they will reprice should your complaint be upheld and the cancellations deemed unfair.

Be aware that the ombudsman does not move quickly! Now PPI is a closed issue things arent as bad but if it takes several months with them you've done well.

TELLIT01

1.  You didn't lie, but didn't give correct information either so they are naturally suspicious.  When you add information about claims and convictions piecemeal it rings all sorts of alarm bells.  In that situation the easiest route for the insurer is to decline to insure you, and that is what they have done.

2.  They have not "straight up lied", any more than you lied initially about your father's driving history.  Somebody in the office made an error in offering the second policy and that has been corrected, just as you made errors and corrected them when attempting to take out the policy.  I would agree that it should be noted in the policy history that the second cancellation was due to the policy being issued in error.

AlfieWilko1950

It's common knowledge that if you change too many details the software will identify this and it will think you are  fraudulently  trying to manipulate your details to reduce the cost.
You have only yourself to blame , playing around with the mileage too much and adding other drivers with incorrect details and then  changing them is a no-no.
Learn from your mistakes and just go with Admiral .
You are wasting your time fighting this...it happened whatever spin you try and put on the reasons for doing it.

jimbo6977

It might be “common knowledge” to some but why would it be so to someone who has just passed their test and might be contracting motor insurance for the first time?

Whilst I can see this issue from the insurers’ pov in relation to good faith, I also think this has to come back further to the fundamentals of contract law. Requesting a price for a good or service confers absolutely no responsibility whatsoever on the party making the request. There is no offer, no acceptance and no consideration at this stage - none of the fundamental elements of a contract exist. So I fail to see how the insurer can act to the detriment of the insured, based on any price requests other than the details included in the, eventual, properly formed contact.

Perhaps someone with deeper legal knowledge can enlighten me?

Sea_Shell

This is only now an issue because of on line insurance.

Back in the day you'd go into your local broker, sit down with them, and run through a myriad of options with no implications (other than the exasperation of the broker!!)

They might print off a few quotes for you, but they weren't officially recorded anywhere.

Your contract was based on what was actually completed on the proposal form.

Has the fundamental contract with your insurer changed since it all went on line?

I believe that it's not common knowledge for youngsters getting their first car insurance, they are just making use of the current tools available.

Their parents probably remember using brokers with no issues.

Dosty

Sandtree said:

The FOS only consider complaints after the original company has given you their final response or 8 weeks have passed since you logged the complaint. There is no way to bypass this process.

One of the problems you will have is that you played around with one element that is exceptionally hard to prove what the correct answer is (mileage) and especially as you dont have years of previous driving experience to bring forward as evidence. The details of your additional driver can easily be dismissed, you quoted based on the knowledge you had and corrected the position to a more adverse situation when you became aware of it. Ideally you should have got all the facts before quoting but thats life and you can substantiate via your fathers license etc that the situation is no worse than you declared on the quote that you actually purchased.

Your argument clearly has to be that their response of cancelling your policy, and the known knock on impacts thats going to have on you is disproportional to the act of seeing what the impact of having a higher mileage would have caused. If you can share your rational for thinking 5,000 miles is the appropriate number that could also help given it is on the low side. 

Possibly unknown to you but your attempts at testing insurance pricing most likely failed anyway as most insurers now have counter fraud mechanisms built into their systems so if they think people are trying to manipulate quotes they either increase premiums to reflect the increased risk or stop quoting... so add your 3rd named driver and requote shows a jump in premiums that could be because of counter fraud and nothing to do with the named driver.

If you buy a new policy before your complaint is resolved be sure a) that the new insurer is fully aware of both cancellations and b) clarify if they will reprice should your complaint be upheld and the cancellations deemed unfair.

Be aware that the ombudsman does not move quickly! Now PPI is a closed issue things arent as bad but if it takes several months with them you've done well.

My rational for the 5,000 miles is that I am a medical student who has to travel for hospital placements, and I have no idea what next year will be like as I don't know which hospital I will be sent to. I may spend the remainder of this year travelling 1,500 miles to my placements, and if I get placed at the farthest hospital that students from our University get sent to, I could spend another 1,500-2,000 miles travelling. That would bring me up to 3,500 miles, but this can increase further if I need to travel for sports purposes, and then there are leisure purposes and travelling home purposes from University. On this basis, I could reach somewhere between 4,000 and 5,000 miles, or I could even travel only 3,000 miles if I get placed somewhere near. The nature of my course means that I can't have a solid estimate unfortunately, which is why I opted for the 5,000 miles in order not to overestimate. 

So you think I should go for a new policy, but try to clarify the nature of the cancellation and find out if there is an option for reducing my premiums if the cancellation is revoked? Would a reprice be possible if I opt for an annual payment?

Dosty

TELLIT01 said:

1.  You didn't lie, but didn't give correct information either so they are naturally suspicious.  When you add information about claims and convictions piecemeal it rings all sorts of alarm bells.  In that situation the easiest route for the insurer is to decline to insure you, and that is what they have done.

2.  They have not "straight up lied", any more than you lied initially about your father's driving history.  Somebody in the office made an error in offering the second policy and that has been corrected, just as you made errors and corrected them when attempting to take out the policy.  I would agree that it should be noted in the policy history that the second cancellation was due to the policy being issued in error.

Yes but I would've lied if I were to take out the insurance, and then make amendments regarding my father's driving history? In this case, I changed it from a better, to a worse situation before taking out the policy, and they could've called me first to clarify my father's driving history before cancelling. And yes they corrected it, but that correction now affects my policy history so it is quite a substantial "error". 

eddddy

FWIW, Hastings did this to somebody I know.

In that case, they were working in shop, but had a place at university in 4 months time. They intended to tell Hastings about the change of occupation and location when it occurred in 4 months time - but, in the meantime, wanted an indication of how much premiums might increase. So they got quotes for the different occupations and the different home addresses.

Hastings subsequently cancelled the policy for suspected fraud.

Perhaps the difference in this case was that the policyholder didn't accept the cancellation and buy a new policy. Instead, they challenged Hastings about it (or rather the policy holder's father did, who happened to be a lawyer) and explained the circumstances. After a couple of days, Hastings agreed to reinstate the policy - so no cancellation was recorded.

Dosty

AlfieWilko1950 said:

It's common knowledge that if you change too many details the software will identify this and it will think you are  fraudulently  trying to manipulate your details to reduce the cost.
You have only yourself to blame , playing around with the mileage too much and adding other drivers with incorrect details and then  changing them is a no-no.
Learn from your mistakes and just go with Admiral .
You are wasting your time fighting this...it happened whatever spin you try and put on the reasons for doing it.

It was my first time taking out an insurance, so it really wasn't common knowledge to me. And again, I added further details because I was looking for rough estimates at first, just like when I was speaking to the agent from Admiral, we didn't have all the information from my parents at the time so he just put in guesses to get an estimate. The agent said they would call me on Saturday once I have gathered all the details so we can get a better picture, so it's the same situation as before, just this time it's happening over the phone rather than online. What should matter is that the final details are all correct. 

Dosty

Sea_Shell said:

This is only now an issue because of on line insurance.

Back in the day you'd go into your local broker, sit down with them, and run through a myriad of options with no implications (other than the exasperation of the broker!!)

They might print off a few quotes for you, but they weren't officially recorded anywhere.

Your contract was based on what was actually completed on the proposal form.

Has the fundamental contract with your insurer changed since it all went on line?

I believe that it's not common knowledge for youngsters getting their first car insurance, they are just making use of the current tools available.

Their parents probably remember using brokers with no issues.

Once I took out the first policy, I did not make any more amendments to it as all the details were correct. When I took out the second policy over the phone, all the details were the same. When they called me yesterday morning as a regular check for all the details in the second policy, I went through it all and it was all fine, until the agent noticed that I had my first policy cancelled with them and that they made an error when issuing me with a second policy.