No pets without prior consent? Please Help?!

eddddy

TanJ23 said:

I do understand the concerns but the lease does state it would not be unreasonably withheld so I’m struggling to understand why the actions of others is a reasonable reason to say no to all potential buyers, she also said that we should have been informed of this before we got to this stage! 

Yep - it's arguable whether that's "unreasonable" - but you might have to go to a tribunal in order to get a ruling on whether it's "unreasonable".

But ignoring that, it sounds like you'd be going into an 'anti-dog' environment, and perhaps make some enemies from day 1.

I'm not sure I'd want to spend hundreds of thousands on a flat, just to be living amongst people who will be angry with me (and my pet).  So I think walking away might be sensible.

TanJ23 said:

Sounds like the lease needs updating?

FWIW, typically, you can't just change some of the leases - you have to change them all. So every single leaseholder would need to agree to their lease being changed, and they'd each have to pay a chunk of legal fees.  So it's unlikely to happen.

yksi

TanJ23 said:

youth_leader said:

I was a bit shocked the other day when a neighbour commented that my dog had barked for so long she had felt concerned, and was going to come round to see if I was alright.  

That’s a concern also that someone would make things up to try and get the animal removed! If no nuisance is being caused it shouldn’t concern others 

If the dog is barking for a long time it is a nuisance. Stop playing the "aw, everyone loves doggies" part and consider that plenty of us hate them and don't want to hear their stupid noise.

To the OP, I think you should find another property. Don't assume that a share in the freehold will allow you to change the lease. People who don't care about dogs will have no interest in paying the legal fees to change it and know that changing it might make their life more annoying. If it was a block full of dog-lovers who needed it changed, they would have changed it already. The fact that the clause is in that lease tells you that the owners there specifically do not want pets in the building.

TanJ23

I hadn’t assumed a share in the freehold would allow me to change the lease, what I meant by the lease needs changing is that it should probably state that no pets are allowed full stop rather than saying that you could apply for consent and that the consent would not be unreasonably withheld.
I had also previously said I completely understand that dogs are not for everyone and had not assumed anything hence the question being asked in the first place 🤷🏻‍♀️

davidmcn

TanJ23 said:

what I meant by the lease needs changing is that it should probably state that no pets are allowed full stop rather than saying that you could apply for consent and that the consent would not be unreasonably withheld.

I agree, the lease wouldn't say what it does if dogs were actually intended to be prohibited. They're in the wrong unless they can point at some objective reason for refusing consent in your case. But do you really want to walk into a fight?

annetheman

TanJ23 said:

I hadn’t assumed a share in the freehold would allow me to change the lease, what I meant by the lease needs changing is that it should probably state that no pets are allowed full stop rather than saying that you could apply for consent and that the consent would not be unreasonably withheld.
I had also previously said I completely understand that dogs are not for everyone and had not assumed anything hence the question being asked in the first place 🤷🏻‍♀️

I understand what you're saying and I feel bad for you but it's quite possible they'd have let you keep your pet if he/she were a hamster or a cat.

I mentioned that my cat was allowed in a building I was told they normally would say outright no to (buildings with 2+ floors) because he is indoor only* and my vet confirmed it; keeping to the conditions in which pets are allowed is more difficult for dogs and their owners.

So I think there's a strong possibility it's not the pet that is the issue but the type of pet i.e. a dog that needs to be taken outside (to poop/walk) and barks. All (well, maybe not a few disabled) dogs do those things so they're more at risk of being a nuisance.

*also because he is a fluffkins

hb2

We moved from a house to this flat nearly 4 years ago. As we have 2 cats, we checked whether there was a 'no pets' clause before we even arranged a viewing - no pets = no view. When we were told there was no outright ban, we asked to see the relevant part of the lease and got the vendors to check with the other freeholders before we started any conveyancing.

One of my cats is indoor only, the other goes out; we got permission to install a cat-flap in an outside wall, so there is no reason for puss to be in the communal areas indoors. However, doors get left open sometimes, so I am often slightly on-edge. I also worry that the lady who likes to sunbathe might complain about the occasional pile of feathers left on the lawn! I hope he will be with us for another 10 years but, when he does go, will seriously consider another indoor only cat.

As an aside, I detest children (tried it once, didn't like it) but absolutely accept that my neighbours have every right to have them without asking permission! Fortunately, our block seems to be pretty well sound-insulated and I have never heard the 1 year old who lives 2 floors up from us.

TanJ23

We pulled out of the purchase, You live and you learn and we will be asking for the lease pet policy prior to anymore viewings 👍🏼

lookstraightahead

TanJ23 said:

We pulled out of the purchase, You live and you learn and we will be asking for the lease pet policy prior to anymore viewings 👍🏼

I personally think that was the best decision. Good luck 

AlexMac

TanJ23 said:

Just thought I’d update, we emailed the secretary of the management and has basically said that they had agreed for dogs previously and she’d forward our request but because of past issues with dogs and owners being irresponsible they’d likely say no!...  Back to the drawing board I guess!

I'm surprised that this common question should generate a 40-odd plus reply thread, and wonder if we're all over-thinking it? 

After all, you haven't even been refused permission yet.  Now you have established who is empowered to take decisons on behalf of the Freeholder (if not the "secretary of the management" whoever that is)  I assume that you will now approach them with a formal request; maybe making the point reasonably and courteously that you have a small dog which has not ever been the cause of noise or nuisance, and that you therefore assume permission will not be witheld becuse to do so would be unreasonable in your circumstances?  Maybe better in your own words rather than as a forwarded email from someone without any delegated authority but with a negative attitude?

It's a pity that you only discovered the problem after (presumably) committing legal, mortgage, survey and search fees, especially because every lease in all the five flats I've owned over the years has included a version of this entirely normal clause;
‘not to keep pets except with prior consent ...not unreasonably withheld’. 
When I sold my last one, my buyer shared your concerns.  So I sorted it with the Company Secretary (one of my fellow leasehold residents) and she simply confirmed it was OK if my buyer wanted to keep a small dog; so I got an informal not e to that effect.  

But every block I've ever owned has also had at least one resident with a cat or dog, in my experience causing no problems as they've all been small pets.  Sometimes they sought permission 1st; sometimes they simply ignored the lease clause, on the assumption that the freeholder wouldn't take legal action enforce, or worse, to "determine" their lease and boot 'em out.  But that's probably not the best way to endear yourself to your co-freeholders if, as you say, it's a "Shared Freehold" with you as a member or shareholder, or even a Director of the Freehold Company?

Unless you've already given in and are planning to walk away from this flat if that's what you mean by
" Back to the drawing board I guess!" 

I hope it works out either way!

mattyprice4004

It may have been asked before, but can you move somewhere less central to open up your budget to houses?
I always stick by the old adage - flats are for renting, houses are for buying. Might be worth another few minutes commute for a much more peaceful existence.