Tenants in Common and property to leave to children ON TRUST

flying_flanders

Hi,
My wife and I are changing from joint tenants to tenants in common for inheritance reasons for our children and to protect our legacy from care costs.
We've filled in the SEV form, already done the notice of severance letters and about to send the SEV form to the land registry.
So my questions are... 
1. will the land registry send me a new property deed with the correct wording on it?
OR will I need to send the original property deed for them to amend?
2. Is the 'trust' a real/separate document or is the fact the: severance letters state the share split of the property and our updated wills specify the property is held 'ON TRUST' by our children effectively the 'deed of trust' referred to?
Or must we create a separate 'deed of trust' document?
It's unclear on the land registry guides and forms and I can't find reference to either question on posts here, so, please forgive me if I've missed it.
Any advice or pointing me at the right threads would be great please.

flying_flanders

By the way, should have mentioned, our two children are 28 and 25, so not minors.
and as alluded to, we are updating our wills currently to reflect these changes.

getmore4less

Is this the common  IPDI trust or something different?

flying_flanders

Yes I think it will be the common IPDI Trust, my wife and I want to allow the surviving one of us, to live in the property immediately after the first death whilst our two sons will inherit 25% each of the property 'in trust' whilst also protecting the surviving spouses' 50% share of the property for our two sons should the surviving spouse end up requiring care

xylophone

See
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6230801/tenants-in-common-paper-work-after-bereavement#latest

Take your solicitor's advice on the formalities but as far as I understand it -

You have severed the joint tenancy and therefore a Form A restriction can be recorded at the Land Registry.

On the death of the first spouse, the survivor becomes the sole legal (but not beneficial) owner of the property.

The exors could simply arrange for the removal of the name of the deceased from the register leaving the Form A restriction in place.

With the permission of the surviving spouse, the Trustees of the IPDI could also be registered as joint proprietors,   simply relying on the provisions of the deceased's will to demonstrate the existence of the IPDI Trust and therefore that they hold their interest in Trust.

Or they could ask their solicitor to draw up a formal Deed of Trust/ register an additional restriction.

The deceased's will should have stated the exact terms of the IPDI  (for example what would happen if the property were sold and there was an excess over what was required to purchase a new property - would the excess need to be invested and the income paid to the survivor)?

Or if the survivor had to move into care, on sale of the property, would the Trust end so that at that stage the "remaindermen" (the sons) could take their share of the sale proceeds?

All this should be clarified by the solicitor who drafts your  will and the Trust Deed.

flying_flanders

Thank you #xylophone, very helpful, I will check the link you gave. that's confirmed question 2 for me that the 'deed of trust' can be either written in the will or a separate document if I've understood correctly?

flying_flanders

Question 1 is still in my mind, can anyone confirm please if the Land Registry will provide me a new deed document or if I need to send the old one to them when I send the SEV form to them?
many thanks

xylophone

https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common

Keep_pedalling

flying_flanders said:

Yes I think it will be the common IPDI Trust, my wife and I want to allow the surviving one of us, to live in the property immediately after the first death whilst our two sons will inherit 25% each of the property 'in trust' whilst also protecting the surviving spouses' 50% share of the property for our two sons should the surviving spouse end up requiring care

It will not protect the surviving spouses share, as they will still own that. If residential care is required the survivor will still have assets to to self fund, and in reality that is a good thing if you want to avoid over my dead body grange.

flying_flanders

xylophone said:

https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common

thank you, but... neither that guide nor the form notes say anything about the deed document itself and whether to send it or not.
The form DOES say in:  "7 (A) All registered proprietors of the title number referred to in panel 2 are applying (no further evidence is required)." my understanding is that this is referring to evidence of severance if only one party is applying.
But the deed document isn't 'evidence' right? it is the document to be amended with the TiC clause.
Or am I missing something? 

flying_flanders

Keep_pedalling said:

flying_flanders said:

Yes I think it will be the common IPDI Trust, my wife and I want to allow the surviving one of us, to live in the property immediately after the first death whilst our two sons will inherit 25% each of the property 'in trust' whilst also protecting the surviving spouses' 50% share of the property for our two sons should the surviving spouse end up requiring care

It will not protect the surviving spouses share, as they will still own that. If residential care is required the survivor will still have assets to to self fund, and in reality that is a good thing if you want to avoid over my dead body grange.

yes I see what your saying, my wording wasn't ideal, wife would still own 50% agreed, but doesn't the protection come from the fact that the TiC arrangement means the authorities can't 'seize' the asset/force a sale to pay for care costs?