Forget that I ever existed

caprikid1

AdrianC said:

ushjr said:

Many cars have known weak spots for rust that once welded may go on for another 4-5 years whilst others once it has set in unless its a classic you love get rid.

It falls into the latter, will probably need welding every year from now on.

It will only need welding every year if they don't do the job properly.

Cars are made of bits of steel welded together.
Cut a bit of rusty steel out, back to solid steel, and weld a new bit in. Then protect it properly. It will never need welding again.
The job only needs doing again where it was done badly in the first place - they didn't cut far enough back, so weren't welding to solid metal - or they didn't protect it properly (INSIDE as well as outside) after welding.
Most cars rot from the inside out - inside box sections, inside seams.
Most people try and protect their cars from the outside in, by painting the bits they can see. Then they wonder why it's not slowed the rot down...

Problem is that often garage welding is a mere patch over the rust, to fix properly as you say often the level of strip down quadruples the cost of the repair beyond all economic sense. It can be nearly impossible to protect many repairs as you cannot get behind it to treat it effectively.
I think never need welding again is a bold statement, if it can rust in the first place it can rust again, I appreciate if cut back and treated correctly you may get more life. but often a rusty car rusts from the inside out so it can be impossible to know where it is about to spring from next. 
I own old Fords and a Rover Mini....... I have experience of rust !.

AdrianC

caprikid1 said:
It can be nearly impossible to protect many repairs as you cannot get behind it to treat it effectively.

Of course it's possible.
Even if it needs a hole drilling somewhere to allow wax to be injected, then the hole's closed over with a grommet.

Every box section on every car has access somewhere - because the shell is dipped in a tank of cataphoretic rust protection in the factory before it's painted. Not everybody can be bothered to look for them, though...

caprikid1

"Of course it's possible.
Even if it needs a hole drilling somewhere to allow wax to be injected, then the hole's closed over with a grommet."
Ive cut into enough classic cars and waxed enough classic cars to know unfortunately that is not the case, especially where overlapping joints are created. Also all wax injection treatments are not equal....
We can argue on this all day long but we know back street burt welding up someones car for MOT will not send that car out with adequate protection to protect the repair or do the repair in a manner to reduce the risk of rust coming back.

caprikid1

Out of Interest Adrian C do you own any old cars ? A Welder or a business that welds old cars ? 

AdrianC

caprikid1 said:

Out of Interest Adrian C do you own any old cars ? A Welder or a business that welds old cars ? 

I can weld, but I'm not very good. But that may be in large part due to my perception of "good" - I have friends who completely rebuild bodyshells to better-than-new.

No, I'm not in the motor trade at all - and never have been. But I have wasted far too much time hanging around friends' workshops.

The average age of my current fleet is 40. Last year, we bought our first two Millennial-built vehicles.
The newest vehicle (2005) needed a little patch of welding on the front subframe this year.
The second-newest (2002) has also had at least one small patch before we bought it.
The third-newest (1982) has been in our ownership since it was less than 2yo. Most of the bodyshell has been replaced in the past - the floors and sills were done when it was not even ten years old, and are still good. Most of the body restoration is now over 20yo, and has had only very minor attention since.

caprikid1 said:

...but we know back street burt welding up someones car for MOT will not send that car out with adequate protection to protect the repair or do the repair in a manner to reduce the risk of rust coming back.

And there we are agreeing.
The question is why.
Is it because it's impossible, or is it because Bert CBA and the customer won't pay for even that extra hour's labour?

caprikid1

"The third-newest (1982) has been in our ownership since it was less than 2yo. Most of the bodyshell has been replaced in the past - the floors and sills were done when it was not even ten years old, and are still good. Most of the body restoration is now over 20yo, and has had only very minor attention since."
Used as a daily car in all weathers ?

AdrianC

caprikid1 said:

"The third-newest (1982) has been in our ownership since it was less than 2yo. Most of the bodyshell has been replaced in the past - the floors and sills were done when it was not even ten years old, and are still good. Most of the body restoration is now over 20yo, and has had only very minor attention since."
Used as a daily car in all weathers ?

Not any more. But about 3-4k miles most years, through a real mix of weather including being driven and left overnight in absolute downpours.

caprikid1

AdrianC said:

caprikid1 said:

"The third-newest (1982) has been in our ownership since it was less than 2yo. Most of the bodyshell has been replaced in the past - the floors and sills were done when it was not even ten years old, and are still good. Most of the body restoration is now over 20yo, and has had only very minor attention since."
Used as a daily car in all weathers ?

Not any more. But about 3-4k miles most years, through a real mix of weather including being driven and left overnight in absolute downpours.

Landrover ?

AdrianC

That one isn't.

caprikid1

lol AdrianC drip drip.... What are they .