Am I being discriminated against?

JamoLew

KatrinaWaves said:

JamoLew said:

Kathy535 said:

Leaving aside any potential for a mismatch in perceptions of your ability and how you’re regarded in the organisation, one way to approach the issue could be to ask for feedback on your application from the recruiting manager.  Rather than ask them why you didn’t get an interview flag that you applied and you’d welcome their thoughts on how you could improve next time.  Ideally you’d want this face to face so you can see their body language and you should steer the conversation to specifics and not settle for comments like ‘your application was fine, it’s just others were better’. 

For the future you might want to identify an in-company mentor who can advise on promotion opportunities and how to make the most of them.  They could also provide you with useful feedback on your performance and perceptions .

The OP wasn't even invited to apply/aware there was a vacancy

They did apply, it’s in the massive first OP. You may have missed it amidst all the bits about how amazing they are for such a young person. 

Apologies - you are correct - just seen it 

wilfred30

Anamox said:

Hi all,

My job: I’ve been there for 3 years and have an impeccable record on performance, attendance and safety. I’m not an a**licker and professionally challenge authority if they are in the wrong. I’m not anti-company like some of my colleagues and am happy at work. I have a high level of competency in all of our operations. The role was a step down for me in responsibility having had a far more challenging role before. The job is a new technology so almost all are inexperienced with it and are taught it on the job having come from the “next best industries”, I have been doing it since I left school and am the only one with it as my background (academic and practical). 

I didn’t really think anything about it until today when I realised all of those chosen ones are at least 10 years older than me, colleagues and management have jokes that I look far too young for the job I do - I don’t mind this as I know it is true. Now I’m worried they genuinely don’t want someone my age stepping up and running the place, even though I often step up into this position to cover absence and am the preferred person to do so. I’m also worried that they’ve decided they don’t want someone that calls out extremely poor (and illegal) practises despite the company encouraging us to do so - I’ve never done this loudly and don’t do it to annoy people; whenever I have done it I’ve insisted on carrying out the work myself to rectify it and haven’t blamed anyone.  

I suspect that my highlighted comments might be the reason you weren't encouraged to apply and then, when you did, you weren't offered an interview.

By the way, the level of arrogance you display in your post is, quite frankly, staggering.

MalMonroe

What you say here - "the management are my friends and we think of each other highly - especially as they have been open to me before with their professional dislike of some of the people which have been successful in getting through to interview" - struck me as strange. Because the management are obviously NOT your friends. Nor do they think of you highly and nor is it at all professional of them to discuss any dislike of any other employee with you. At any time.

It is very unprofessional of anyone where you work to mention that you are, or appear, young. Age discrimination IS one of the protected characteristics that can be challenged by employees at an employment tribunal, whether it's describing older or younger employees. There is no need to mention anyone's age at any juncture. Every employee should be judged ONLY on their ability to do their job.

I'm afraid I think the company you work for is deplorable, for starters there's no confidentiality and they don't publicise their vacancies openly. You could ask your line manager if there is any feedback from your application, for example why wasn't it even considered. You're entitled to ask but I have the feeling that you'll just get a load of waffle in return.

If I were you I'd have started looking for something better, months ago. You have confidence in your own ability - you do, don't you? - so start trawling the internet for something that's a better fit. And a much MUCH better company.

wilfred30 states : "the level of arrogance you display in your post is, quite frankly, staggering" and others commenting have mentioned arrogance too but I do think - I may be wrong but I think it is the case - that it just stems from your basic insecurity. You seem to need some reassurance that you are good at your job and you can do it. I believe that you are, and that you can. Just not there.

Use this whole experience as a learning curve. You are young, you have skills, you will get on. Just not in this particular company. Spread your wings and look for that better job. You can do it!

General_Grant

Undervalued said:

Likewise, my answer is no. You haven't been "discriminated against" in any unlawful way based on what you have posted here.

"Discrimination" happens all the time in employment and it is perfectly lawful unless it is on one of the handful of grounds that are prohibited by law e.g. race, gender (with some exceptions) sexual orientation etc etc. Nothing says an employer has to choose the best qualified candidate, however that is defined. If they want to choose an "a**licker", (as you so delicately put it!) that is their choice and perfectly lawful.

So, unless you have good reason to believe that the "discrimination" was actually on unlawful grounds, there is nothing you can do about it. You either need to change your approach to fit in with what this company appears to appreciate or look elsewhere.

Sorry.

  Browntoa said:

An employer can use any criteria they wish for choosing someone for a vacancy which may not include "traditional" criteria like best qualified etc. This could include looking for someone who is a natural team leader for example while a more technically qualified person is not.

As long as it meets the criteria for fairness on race , gender and disability etc then it's fair 

And one of the unlawful ("unfair") criteria for discriminating is age, which is what the OP is asking about and which neither of you list other than that it is, as you know, included in "etc".

Unfortunately for the OP, it would be difficult to prove unlawful discrimination.

Probably better to take elsewhere the experience in the job including that you can say you "step up into this position to cover absence".

ToxicWomble

I may be jumping to a conclusion but the OP says that an apprentice got interviewed and I assume (May be wrong) that this person may be younger than the OP - thus age discrimination would be impossible to prove

lincroft1710

ToxicWomble said:

I may be jumping to a conclusion but the OP says that an apprentice got interviewed and I assume (May be wrong) that this person may be younger than the OP - thus age discrimination would be impossible to prove

This may have been a crafty ploy by the employer to counter any accusation of age discrimination

luckbox

In the last organisation that I worked for, you would discuss a promotion for yourself and get it agreed before the internal job advert went up. Then apply to jump through the hoops to get officially promoted. If a job went up for a role you could go for, but you had no warning, then you knew you wouldn't get it. Assuming that things will be 100% transparent and fair in a workplace is not really the best position to take. Work out how your organisation does things and play the game along with everyone else.

Dox

Anamox said:

I thought they were staggering assessments and interviews for COVID but it turns out they’re not considering any other applications. I am the only one that hasn’t been accepted to be assessed/interviewed; some of the ones who got through are better than me, one is equal and most are worse (our work grades us and we all know our grading, I am a 9/10 and one that got through is a 3/10 - this is based on quantifiable productivity factors). By worse I mean people with disciplinaries, people with poor attitude that loudly hate the company etc - but maybe these people aren't massively over-rating themselves, and have the humility to know they need to learn?

Now I’m worried they genuinely don’t want someone my age stepping up and running the place, even though I often step up into this position to cover absence and am the preferred person to do so. Maybe they don't want someone with so little experience and such a naive take on the workplace 'running the place' - sound management decision, if so

What would your take be if you were in this situation? I'd never had got myself into this situation, but I suggest you see it as a learning curve, if you can grasp the fact you have so much to learn it is untrue

 I’m waiting until the chosen person starts their new role to understand the situation more before I ask the questions that need to be asked - they’ve already picked a person, I don’t know who, so it is too late for me. Questions don't need to be asked - just the one: ask for feedback on your application

At best it’s been an HR blunder in not passing my details properly, at worst they don’t want a baby faced “kid” being one of the senior and customer facing employees.  Possibly neither applies; they simply didn't want someone who thinks they know it all after just a couple of years in the workplace. 

Your post was so littered with self-justification and self-aggrandisement I seriously doubted it was real, but I've given you the benefit of the doubt. You come over as very immature, but the good news is that the natural ageing process,  and working for a few more years, will gradually help to erode that problem - IF you are prepared to accept that mummy's little soldier may not (yet) be quite as perfect as you fondly believe. Get some management training - plenty of good books around and also free online courses - to prepare you for when you are genuinely ready for a step up.

Good luck!

TELLIT01

MalMonroe said:

What you say here - "the management are my friends and we think of each other highly - especially as they have been open to me before with their professional dislike of some of the people which have been successful in getting through to interview" - struck me as strange. Because the management are obviously NOT your friends. Nor do they think of you highly and nor is it at all professional of them to discuss any dislike of any other employee with you. At any time.

It is very unprofessional of anyone where you work to mention that you are, or appear, young.

I hadn't seen the comment "management are my friends...." but it it clear, as MalMonroe says, that management clearly do not see themselves as friends of the OP.  If they were, they would have ensured either that the OP was made aware of the vacancy, or told the OP why they didn't feel them ready or suitable for the role.  Not only is management not the OP's friend, they are extremely unprofessional as they should never discuss what has happened to other staff unless the OP was line manager to those individuals, which seems highly unlikely.

I don't have any problem with comments about appearing to be younger than my age, as it happened to me throughout my working life.  I overheard one colleague talking about a pre-retirement seminar which had been arranged, and asked why I hadn't been invited.  His response was to laugh and say "You have to be over 60".  The look of disbelief on his face when I told him I was only a year away from State Pension age was wonderful.  Looking younger than my age has never held me back in my employment.

Manxman_in_exile

Anamox said:

...

I’m also worried that they’ve decided they don’t want someone that calls out extremely poor (and illegal) practises despite the company encouraging us to do so  ...

I’m already losing sleep over it worrying that the employer I love isn’t as good as they seem. I’m going to struggle challenging why I wasn’t personally urged to apply when the management are my friends and we think of each other highly - especially as they have been open to me before with their professional dislike of some of the people which have been successful in getting through to interview. I’m waiting until the chosen person starts their new role to understand the situation more before I ask the questions that need to be asked...

Apart from the sense of entitlement and high self-regard noted by others, what a strange sounding employer to "love".

I wouldn't trust any employer with managers who were my "friends" any further than I could throw them - especially one who permitted unsafe and illegal practises (sic).

The only question to be asked is whether they can give you any feedback on your unsuccessful application - and whether that feedback will be honest.