New lockdown

Silvertabby

Thrugelmir said:

AdrianC said:

Stating that the NHS is underfunded and overstretched is hardly "politics". It's more of a blatant truism.

If the population of the UK wasn't generally obese. Didn't misuse A&E. Treated children properly. Didn't miss around 20% of booked appointments. Then resources would be more effectively used. 

Covid has merely highlighted the culture that prevails in a broad section of society.  

The NHS will never be fully funded.  There just isn't enough money to meet everyone's expectations of their 'rights'. 

Doozergirl

Thrugelmir said:

AdrianC said:

Stating that the NHS is underfunded and overstretched is hardly "politics". It's more of a blatant truism.

If the population of the UK wasn't generally obese. Didn't misuse A&E. Treated children properly. Didn't miss around 20% of booked appointments. Then resources would be more effectively used. 

Covid has merely highlighted the culture that prevails in a broad section of society.  

In other words, resources would be more effectively used if humans didn't behave like humans do. 

Davesnave

Thrugelmir said:

Davesnave said:

Doozergirl said:

jimbog said:

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

 This isn't the same as lockdown 1. Some lessons have been learned.    

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf?fbclid=IwAR038cD9tmNhpdaQftjgrarRkGPBPTvbbEnZwno1NSv41TxwyuA_fnyB7m8

I think the main lesson our leaders have learned is that many of us won't to put up with the same stringent conditions they imposed first time around. They'll reap what they sowed last year. It'll be an interesting harvest.

The main lesson is that many people are even more stupid and selfish that we could have imagined. People are going to reap what they sow. Unlikely to be pleasant. 

We still have the full range of intelligence within our population, although there may be some who would like to see the lower end somewhat reduced. We also have a range of cultures, including some for whom the business of social distancing and being stand-offish is almost counter-intuitive. Then we have all the people who are poor and living in quite unpleasant conditions, for whom being banged-up on the 8th floor with kids to entertain/ teach is an entire world away from the lives of those with sufficient cash.

What you seem to be saying is that we need these people fully on board. Well, perhaps until now, many people haven't cared that much whether they are or not, so that's another kind of reaping what you sow.

Just putting an alternative viewpoint.

theartfullodger

Thrugelmir said:

......

True: But the problem we all face from this stupidity is the extra load on the already underfunded and overstretched NHS, plus others, innocent, may just have to passed the toad in the street, get the plague, reaping what the toad sowed.

Leave the politics out of the discussion. Adds nothing to the debate. No doubt you'll find many to engage with you on Facebook. 

Thank you so much for your kind words: 

It's through Politics this mess will be sorted.  Parliament passing such laws as it sees fit.

Crashy_Time

Thrugelmir said:

Davesnave said:

Doozergirl said:

jimbog said:

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

 This isn't the same as lockdown 1. Some lessons have been learned.    

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf?fbclid=IwAR038cD9tmNhpdaQftjgrarRkGPBPTvbbEnZwno1NSv41TxwyuA_fnyB7m8

I think the main lesson our leaders have learned is that many of us won't to put up with the same stringent conditions they imposed first time around. They'll reap what they sowed last year. It'll be an interesting harvest.

The main lesson is that many people are even more stupid and selfish that we could have imagined. People are going to reap what they sow. Unlikely to be pleasant. 

The main lesson IMO is that a big bubble debt ponzi economy with sky high housing costs doesn`t allow people to save for emergencies, how much easier would this have been if most of the population had healthy emergency fund pots?

Crashy_Time

AdrianC said:

A friend's daughter is heavily pregnant. She had been working from home, but was asked to come in to the office to help interview her maternity cover replacement.
One of the other people interviewing turned out to be +ve. Oops.

There was a case mentioned on the radio the other day. An older woman from a south Asian background, trying to shield, but being given serious family pressure to go to a family wedding. Absolutely promised faithfully it would all be covid-secure, and it would be bare minimum. It wasn't. She caught it from somebody else there. She died. Oops.

Both should have declined the invitation, telling an employer No might have been easier than telling family though.

AdrianC

Doozergirl said:

Thrugelmir said:

AdrianC said:

Stating that the NHS is underfunded and overstretched is hardly "politics". It's more of a blatant truism.

If the population of the UK wasn't generally obese. Didn't misuse A&E. Treated children properly. Didn't miss around 20% of booked appointments. Then resources would be more effectively used. 

Covid has merely highlighted the culture that prevails in a broad section of society.  

In other words, resources would be more effectively used if humans didn't behave like humans do. 

The other side of the problem, of course, is that medical technology is far more advanced than at the birth of the NHS.

Back in 1949, antibiotics were a novelty, and most hospital treatment centred around Matron glaring firmly at you until you felt better. Polio was rife, and people would still be dying of smallpox in the UK for the next three decades.

Now, we have sufficient machines that go ping that you can virtually keep a kilo of mince "alive" indefinitely. We're actively rolling out a vaccine to the entire population, based on a concept - mRNA - that wasn't even discovered until over a decade after the NHS's foundation.

The NHS can swallow as much money as can be shovelled at it, and still come back for more. Covid emergency funds apart, it's been fairly level for many years, less than £2,500 per person per year in England.
https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/

SDLT_Geek

Here is a link to a pdf of the amendment regulations made 5 January 2021 which are in effect from today. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/pdfs/uksi_20210008_en.pdf   They are to be debated in Parliament today. 

The effect is to slightly strengthen the Tier 4 restrictions and apply them to the whole of England.  I can see no changes to the provisions relating to house moves summarised on the last post of page 1 here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6225735/moving-in-tier-4/p1 .

spoovy

AdrianC said:

Stating that the NHS is underfunded and overstretched is hardly "politics". It's more of a blatant truism.

The NHS will always be underfunded, it can't be anything else.  It's in the nature of universal centrally-funded healthcare -- demand will always outstrip supply and people will always have cause for complaint.
30 years ago people were happy if they received cancer treatment, now they expect gender reassignment and tummy tucks.  Not saying that these procedures shouldn't be carried out, just that expectations rise along with funding.
Exactly how much public cash should be spent on this as opposed to other things is of course political.

Getting_greyer

spoovy said:

AdrianC said:

Stating that the NHS is underfunded and overstretched is hardly "politics". It's more of a blatant truism.

The NHS will always be underfunded, it can't be anything else.  It's in the nature of universal centrally-funded healthcare -- demand will always outstrip supply and people will always have cause for complaint.
30 years ago people were happy if they received cancer treatment, now they expect gender reassignment and tummy tucks.  Not saying that these procedures shouldn't be carried out, just that expectations rise along with funding.
Exactly how much public cash should be spent on this as opposed to other things is of course political.

The opposite to this of course is a profit driven,  private insurance based system where demand drops. The problem being that drop in demand equals poorer health nationwide and greater strain on welfare.

You are right expectation rises, but I'd argue it rises in line with breakthroughs in medical science and practice.