New lockdown

jimbog

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

Doozergirl

jimbog said:

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

This. 

It really would be a good idea for everyone to read through the guidance, because it affects all of us.  Businesses (and therefore people) suffered last time because they or others didn't understand or misinterpreted the rules.   

This isn't the same as lockdown 1. Some lessons have been learned.    

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf?fbclid=IwAR038cD9tmNhpdaQftjgrarRkGPBPTvbbEnZwno1NSv41TxwyuA_fnyB7m8

Davesnave

Doozergirl said:

jimbog said:

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

 This isn't the same as lockdown 1. Some lessons have been learned.    

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf?fbclid=IwAR038cD9tmNhpdaQftjgrarRkGPBPTvbbEnZwno1NSv41TxwyuA_fnyB7m8

I think the main lesson our leaders have learned is that many of us won't to put up with the same stringent conditions they imposed first time around. They'll reap what they sowed last year. It'll be an interesting harvest.

AdrianC

Davesnave said:

Doozergirl said:

jimbog said:

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

 This isn't the same as lockdown 1. Some lessons have been learned.    

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf

I think the main lesson our leaders have learned is that many of us won't to put up with the same stringent conditions they imposed first time around. They'll reap what they sowed last year. It'll be an interesting harvest.

And that's why we're still here. Because millions of our compatriots are selfish muppets who don't see why they can't have a pint or go on holiday, because they'll be fine, it's just the flu.

Those lessons haven't been learned, and they're why we'll keep coming back to this point.

Salemicus

Davesnave said:

Doozergirl said:

jimbog said:

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

 This isn't the same as lockdown 1. Some lessons have been learned.    

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf?fbclid=IwAR038cD9tmNhpdaQftjgrarRkGPBPTvbbEnZwno1NSv41TxwyuA_fnyB7m8

I think the main lesson our leaders have learned is that many of us won't to put up with the same stringent conditions they imposed first time around. They'll reap what they sowed last year. It'll be an interesting harvest.

Who exactly is going to be doing the reaping here? If people "won't put up with the same stringent conditions," is it the Cabinet who are going to die? Or vulnerable and elderly people? If the lockdown has to go on longer, and more businesses fail, because of selfishness, will the damage primarily fall on "our leaders"? Or on small businesses, retail and service workers? Who is struggling the most with the lockdowns - the great and the good, or the lonely and isolated?

It is absolutely idiotic to think that refusing to follow the safety measures the government has put in place is somehow sticking one to Boris, or make our leaders "reap what they sowed." Culpable and reckless spread of the virus by selfish cretins (does this include you?) is sowing a bitter harvest that we as a country are all reaping. You don't have to like Boris Johnson, or think he's doing a good job, but he didn't go on TV last night because he thought a new lockdown would line his pockets or make him more popular. He knows the need for continued lockdowns is hurting his popularity. The lockdown is there to save lives. Respect it.

Doodles

Two out of the three viewings I have today have been cancelled by the viewers.  My EA said the guidance was as clear as mud.
I've got to go out to get a prescription so will pop out whilst the viewer is here with the EA.   Makes me wonder how many more will cancel this week.

Davesnave

AdrianC said:

Davesnave said:

Doozergirl said:

jimbog said:

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

 This isn't the same as lockdown 1. Some lessons have been learned.    

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf

I think the main lesson our leaders have learned is that many of us won't to put up with the same stringent conditions they imposed first time around. They'll reap what they sowed last year. It'll be an interesting harvest.

And that's why we're still here. Because millions of our compatriots are selfish muppets who don't see why they can't have a pint or go on holiday, because they'll be fine, it's just the flu.

Those lessons haven't been learned, and they're why we'll keep coming back to this point.

The 'You're all selfish muppets for behaving like human beings who need the companionship and love of other human beings' is a separate debate from what I was talking about.

I was referring to the way everything came to a grinding halt in Lockdown 1, even in situations where there was no or minimal risk. And the risks for those under 60 with no special health conditions are very minimal indeed.

Whatever action a government takes there will be negative consequences. Lockdowns have created a massive number of those, many as yet not fully counted, like undetected /untreated serious health issues, physical and mental, all of which have huge costs.There was no cost/benefit analysis done because we were in panic mode with no plan in place. This showed-up in the contradictory advice given about masks and the large sums apparently wasted on things we don't seem to hear about now like Track & Trace. It was a government making decisions on the hoof and people lost faith, especially when public figures were seen to break or bend the rules.

Buy into the selfish muppet narrative if you like; I'm sure Boris and Matt would be glad if people do.

P.S No point looking for a pint in my village. Both pubs are now closed permanently.

Davesnave

Salemicus said:

Davesnave said:

Doozergirl said:

jimbog said:

pinkteapot said:

One thing to be aware of - friends/family outside your household aren’t allowed to physically help you move. Professional removers are still allowed to work, so you may need to use them if you were DIYing it but relying on others to help.

The guidance doesn't say 'aren't allowed' it says 'unless absolutely necessary'

 This isn't the same as lockdown 1. Some lessons have been learned.    

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf?fbclid=IwAR038cD9tmNhpdaQftjgrarRkGPBPTvbbEnZwno1NSv41TxwyuA_fnyB7m8

I think the main lesson our leaders have learned is that many of us won't to put up with the same stringent conditions they imposed first time around. They'll reap what they sowed last year. It'll be an interesting harvest.

Who exactly is going to be doing the reaping here? If people "won't put up with the same stringent conditions," is it the Cabinet who are going to die? Or vulnerable and elderly people? If the lockdown has to go on longer, and more businesses fail, because of selfishness, will the damage primarily fall on "our leaders"? Or on small businesses, retail and service workers? Who is struggling the most with the lockdowns - the great and the good, or the lonely and isolated?

It is absolutely idiotic to think that refusing to follow the safety measures the government has put in place is somehow sticking one to Boris, or make our leaders "reap what they sowed." Culpable and reckless spread of the virus by selfish cretins (does this include you?) is sowing a bitter harvest that we as a country are all reaping. You don't have to like Boris Johnson, or think he's doing a good job, but he didn't go on TV last night because he thought a new lockdown would line his pockets or make him more popular. He knows the need for continued lockdowns is hurting his popularity. The lockdown is there to save lives. Respect it.

Wonderful hyperbole. Boris is where he is because of how he and his government managed things last year.

Can we leave private personalities like me out of it, as I'm sure what I've done/not done isn't remarkable or of any interest.

Also the word Cretin used in a pejorative manner might give offence. Yes, it's medically outdated, but it refers to a person who is physically deformed and has learning difficulties because of congenital thyroid deficiency.

theartfullodger

Until parliament (parliament not Bozo or Scummings) passes (or not..) the Bill on Wednesday, tomorrow, and Lizzie Windsor signs it off there isn't a change of law. 

GDB2222

Davesnave said:

The 'You're all selfish muppets for behaving like human beings who need the companionship and love of other human beings' is a separate debate from what I was talking about.

I was referring to the way everything came to a grinding halt in Lockdown 1, even in situations where there was no or minimal risk. And the risks for those under 60 with no special health conditions are very minimal indeed.
Whatever action a government takes there will be negative consequences. Lockdowns have created a massive number of those, many as yet not fully counted, like undetected /untreated serious health issues, physical and mental, all of which have huge costs.There was no cost/benefit analysis done because we were in panic mode with no plan in place. This showed-up in the contradictory advice given about masks and the large sums apparently wasted on things we don't seem to hear about now like Track & Trace. It was a government making decisions on the hoof and people lost faith, especially when public figures were seen to break or bend the rules.

Buy into the selfish muppet narrative if you like; I'm sure Boris and Matt would be glad if people do.

P.S No point looking for a pint in my village. Both pubs are now closed permanently.

Forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, and I'll delete this if you like, but you live on a small holding in a rural area. The risk for you of catching Covid must be one of the lowest in the country. Where I am in London, the number of cases has gone up 10-fold in 8 weeks. We should perhaps have a tiered system of responses, so that you are subject to restrictions more appropriate to your local risk, but that was tried and people found it confusing.

The lack of risk for 20 year olds has been taken to heart by them, with the result that lots of them have been catching the virus, and some of them are dying of it. However, lots are being treated in hospital, taking up beds and staff time, with the result that some London hospitals have had to cancel urgent cancer surgery. If the ICU is full, major surgery has to stop.