Flying Freehold Query

NameUnavailable

wwfwilla said:

S

Don’t know if I’m allowed to post this but this is the title plan for the property I’m purchasing. I will look into buying the ones for next door tomorrow morning.

What does it say about the area shaded in blue?

wwfwilla

NameUnavailable said:

What does it say about the area shaded in blue?

It doesn't say anything.
You may not be able to see it very well as it hasn't come up great on my screen but the area i'm purchasing is coloured a very faint red.
I don't currently know what the blue means. But I believe all sets of solicitors have seen this title plan. But only the last solicitor came to the conclusion a FF was involved.

davidmcn

It's not coloured blue for no reason, there'll be a reference to it in the title.

greatcrested

You need to look at the Plan in conjunction with the Title which describes what the different colours represent.

That's why earlier I suggested you buy both for your neighbour.

Without the Title, the Plan you posted above does not tell us (oryou) anything useful.

wwfwilla

I have purchased both items for next door (number 51). Please find extracts below. I have redacted the exact address in black for my privacy
Does point number 3 below help with my issue?

greatcrested

Hard to tell from the scale, but your plan appears to exclude the passageway.

The neighbour;s plan also appears to exclude the passageway.

If so, ownership needs to be negotiated/agreed and recorded.

Alternatively, the neighbour's Plan may include up to the halfway point across the passage (though yours does not seem to).

Separately the neighbour's Plan excludes his bedroom that extends over your property.

Likewise your plan excludes the bedroom extending over his property.

There is at least a binding conveyance requiring access and shared maintenance of the party walls and passageway, though only for those already existing as at 1934. Reading that conveyance, and any associated Plan, might provide further detail. Is it held by the Land Registry? If so, £6 will get you a paper copy.

The long term solution would be for both properties Titles' and Plans to be amended to reflect reality (and possibly firm up the respective rights/responsibilities further). But this will take time. A discussion with the neighbour might be a first step to see if they were likely to be cooperative or simply refuse to engage.

Short term, indemnity insurance.

Land_Registry

I guess the mortgage lender’s solicitor is always going to spot it if the survey reports on the flying freehold. 

Unsure what the indemnity policy covers in such cases and why it would be seen as the best or right solution when titles can be amended to match the reality on the ground. 

Such ‘errors’ are invariably made in the conveyancing prior to a title being registered. If the legal deeds created to define the conveyed extents didn’t highlight the FF existence who’d know? Only those living in the property and living over the passageway. 

Best speak to the solicitor re best way forward as if you go with the policy but then try to sort it the policy might have benn a waste of time although it’s main purpose was to get the purchase plus mortgage through so still beneficial. 

As far as you wwfwilla’s post is concerned the blue tint we use is most often used to define a floor level exclusion for example as far as the land tinted blue is concerned only the first floor is included in the title.  The adjoining title would mirror that but state only the ground floor was included. 

We can also use blue tint to define rights of way so as stated the register needs to be read for certainty 

wwfwilla

Thank you both for your responses. It means a lot for people to respond so quickly and offer detail too.
I have forwarded the title and plan for number 51 (next door) to my solicitor, stating that I don't know if they are of any use but seeing as i've purchased them you may as well have a look.

As stated before, the current status is that the lenders solicitors asked for an indemnity policy. The sellers solicitor has responded with some wording or reasoning stating (in so many words) that its a bit overkill. We are waiting for the response from the lenders solicitor.
If they insist on an indemnity policy then i've already asked my solicitor if they can look into it as i'd rather pay that money to get the sale over the line for my own sanity.
Thanks again

Land_Registry

Such indemnity policies are not something we are directly involved with. Although clearly there is a link. 

But form solely the perspective of having read and discussed such matters over the years the things that stand out are 1) if your lender wants it then the choice isn’t usually yours if you want that lender/mortgage 2) overkill is subjective and 3) who pays for it is often negotiable but invariably down to who wants to get it over the finish line the most but everything tends to be negotiable by default as it’s a sale/purchase 
Others will have far more actual experience re such things as mentioned and your solicitor will be very familiar - I can only comment as an interested observer so do rely on the legal advice 

greatcrested

I agree the indemnity policy is a short term solution to get the purchase 'over the line'.

The longer term solution, to rectify the deeds, will, as I suggest, depend somewhat on the neighbour's cooperation. Even without thatyou could get probably force the changes with the LR appointing a surveyor to review the reality etc, but do you really want to start ownership with a potential dispute with the neighbour?

I again suggest you speak to them and get a feel for their attitude.