Flying Freehold Query

wwfwilla

Hi everyone. I'm hoping someone can help me understand about Flying Freeholds please?
I've spent 10 mins doing a basic Paint drawing as you can see above which is the floor plan for both houses.
I'm purchasing the house on the left (green colour). Both are terrace houses.
You can see from the Ground Floor plan that it is very symmetrical and both houses are basically 50/50 or opposites. The ground floor has the passageway that separates the two houses (on the ground floor only). The passageway is used for rear access like putting your bins out etc.
The issue is the first floor. From the floor plan you can see that I get extra bedroom space at the front (green) but to make things fair next door (yellow) gets extra space for their second bedroom. It works out at 50/50 again for the area of both houses. Both extra spaces overhang the passageway.
The issue my conveyancer has is that the Land Registry document doesn't have the first floor for both houses as 50/50. It states that the yellow house has the extra room for the front and second bedroom, which is incorrect.
My conveyancer says a flying freedhold indemnity policy is needed. But I don't understand it as neither house overhangs one another, they only overhang the passageway, which is communal.
I'm lost why the conveyancer needs this policy to continue.
Could anyone help shed any light on this and help me understand please?
Thanks in anticipation

eddddy

You say that the passageway is communal - but who actually owns that piece of land that forms the passageway?

If the 'green house' owns the front half of the passageway, and the 'yellow house' owns the back half of the passageway - then there are probably no flying freeholds.

But based on your description of the LR plan, it may be that the 'yellow house' owns the passageway. Which means that part of the 'green house's' front bedroom is a flying freehold.

AdrianC

The LR paperwork says you simply won't own a chunk of your bedroom.
That's why more paperwork is needed...

greatcrested

There seem to be 2 separate issues.

1) the error in the Land Registry Plan. Your (green) house is in reality using part of a first floor room that is owned by the yellow house according to the LR Plan.

This needs ideally correcting, or failing that an indemnity insurance.

2) the flying freehold. You say "the pasageway is communal" but legally that is impossible. Each house may have a 'Right of Way' or 'Right of Access', but the ownership will be either

a) totally owned by one property, (the other has ROW)

b) owned up to the mid point across the passageway by each property (the other has ROW)

c) owned up to the halfway point along the passageway by each property (the other has ROW)

In a) or b) there is a FF. In c) there is no FF if each property owns the half of the passage under their own first floor room.

Assuming there IS a FF, then this can be an issue

d) with some mortgage lenders (who may either refuse to lend or impose conditions)

e) with maintenance issues/disputes (which explains d) above!)

The solution is ideally a compehencive Deed registered against both properties specifying the rights and obbligations of each property owner regarding maintenance, acess etc, and/or an indemnity insurance.

wwfwilla

Thanks all for your replies so far.
I've come to the realisation that someone must own the plot of land the passageway sits on as it can't just be 'ownerless'.
Having been provided with the map which marks out the boundaries I can confirm the property i'm purchasing (the green one) does not own the passageway. So by default i'm assuming next door must own it. So I can see why its a flying freehold issue now.
What concerns me is that this has come to light very late.
Due to a problem with the first lender I had to switch. The new lender didn't recognise my current solicitor so there is dual representation where my solicitor represents me and TSB's solicitor represent them and all mortgage matters.
My solicitor and the sellers solicitor had basically signed everything off ready for exchange. All the enquiries, searches were done and the mortgage offer was in place.
But the lenders solicitor has come along and in their checks of everything before greenlighting the exchange they've stated the house needs a flying freehold indemnity policy before they will greenlight.
I'm a first time buyer so this is all new to me. So I don't know if there will be extra expense for any of this. This is literally the last hurdle before exchange too.....

N.B. I was never told by the seller, estate agent or sellers solicitor that this property has a flying freehold. As stated above, its something we discovered shortly before we were due to exchange.

eddddy

wwfwilla said:

But the lenders solicitor has come along and in their checks of everything before greenlighting the exchange they've stated the house needs a flying freehold indemnity policy before they will greenlight.
I'm a first time buyer so this is all new to me. So I don't know if there will be extra expense for any of this. This is literally the last hurdle before exchange too.....

An indemnity policy will have a cost - maybe about £100 to £150 - and a solicitor might charge a fee on top for arranging it.

It's down to negotiation who pays for it, the buyer or the seller.

greatcrested

wwfwilla said:

...
Having been provided with the map which marks out the boundaries I can confirm the property i'm purchasing (the green one) does not own the passageway. So by default i'm assuming next door must own it. So I can see why its a flying freehold issue now.

Why not spend £3 (+£3) here and buy the neighbour's Plan (& Title) to confirm this - it might be another LR error!
....Due to a problem with the first lender I had to switch. The new lender didn't recognise my current solicitor so there is dual representation where my solicitor represents me and TSB's solicitor represent them and all mortgage matters.

Oops! Always adds costs, duplication, delay and complications. Better to have switched solicitor, but too late now.

My solicitor and the sellers solicitor had basically signed everything off ready for exchange. All the enquiries, searches were done and the mortgage offer was in place.
But the lenders solicitor has come along and in their checks of everything before greenlighting the exchange  mortgage, they've stated the house needs a flying freehold indemnity policy before they will greenlight.

N.B. I was never told by the seller, estate agent or sellers solicitor that this property has a flying freehold. As stated above, its something we discovered shortly before we were due to exchange.

Estate agents have limited understanding. If the seller did not tell them it was there, they wouldn't recognise a beer barrel in a brewery!

The seller may not have understood they owned a FF - or even what a FF is.

Seller's solicitor would not have any way of knowing unless the seller told him, given that he'd be looking at the LR Plans which don't show the FF!

Same with your solicitor. He's review theLR Plans for you, see no FF, so not raise the issue.

Frankly, due credit to the mortgage lender's solicitor for spotting this!

NameUnavailable

Lots of Victorian/Edwardian era terraced houses have these passageways to provide access to the rear gardens - mainly used back in the day for coal deliveries. It's not an unusual arrangement so your solicitors really ought to be able to advise you and resolve the issues for the lenders.

The vendors/agents might have assumed that you would know about FF as it's quite obvious when you view the property (although of course as FTB's you probably hadn't heard of it before).

wwfwilla

greatcrested said:

Oops! Always adds costs, duplication, delay and complications. Better to have switched solicitor, but too late now.

I could write a novel on the adventures i've had with conveyancing. Currently 5 months in and neither of us is in a chain.
I had a mortgage advisor who recommended TSB as the new lender. Everything seemed fine. I paid the £999 arrangement fee. An hour later when the building society (where the advisor is based) were uploading my documents I got a call and they basically said that they'd only just realised that my current solicitor can't act for TSB. But of course i'd just paid £999 to TSB!!! So they told me to get my solicitor to apply to TSB's panel or something to get approval. Someone from on here stated that could have taken weeks. But my solicitor told me a day later they'd been rejected by TSB for approval.
At this point practically everything but the mortgage was in place. So my advisor said you can switch solicitor or have dual representation. Due to it feeling late in the process it seemed more problematic to change solicitor. Had I realised the new one would go through every document with a fine tooth comb i'd have switched. Because i've ended up paying two lots of conveyancing fees, which is great of course.

The mortgage has been approved as i've received the letter, but TSB won't acknowledge the signed deed and release the funds til their solicitor green lights it. And it was only through their checks we've come across this issue.
TSB's solicitor want a flying freehold indemnity policy. The sellers solicitor is saying its 'overkill' for the issue. We're just waiting to hear back from TSB's solicitor to see if they accept the reasoning or if they insist on the policy.
If its only going to be £100-£150 then i'd happily pay it just to push the sale over the line. Please don't think I have lots of money though. This process has been traumatic and had a very negative effect on my mental health. I'd happily pay that money for the sake of my mental health and finishing the conveyancing.
As always, thanks for the replies

wwfwilla

Don’t know if I’m allowed to post this but this is the title plan for the property I’m purchasing. I will look into buying the ones for next door tomorrow morning.

davidmcn

wwfwilla said:

greatcrested said:

Oops! Always adds costs, duplication, delay and complications. Better to have switched solicitor, but too late now.

If its only going to be £100-£150 then i'd happily pay it just to push the sale over the line. 

Yes, it's not going to be a big deal.