Car problems - Hire Purchae

Grumpy_chap

crunk said:

Nissan have a very low opinion of their own battery. This battery has lost 1 bar of health and has lost nearly 60 miles of range they won’t do anything under warranty until it loses 3 bars of health within 10 years or 100k miles. Not ideal at all as it’s lost so much range that it’s unusable for me. It also has a faulty cell which means the when I get to around 30 miles of range it can just shutdown at any moment which left me stranded for 4 hours down a dark road waiting for the RAC. I may have opted for a fix here but the dealer was so rude to me I have rejected the car.

I think rejecting the car is the correct thing to do.

I am surprised at the level of degradation Nissan accept before they deem the battery warranty to kick in.  I wonder what @DrEskimo thinks of that?

Maybe, also, this is a car that Nissan have already done something in relation to the battery for the first owner - maybe favourable costs to exchange to new and then the car has escaped to trade with a known issue as "spares or repair" but, possibly unknown to the supplying dealer, made its way back to the forecourt...

crunk

k3lvc said:

Unless I've missed something there seems to be an assumption that this was from a Nissan Dealer ? Was it ?

If so then 
a) why was it let out of the door without having had the service done
b) why aren't you involving Nissan under the approved used guarantee

This was not a Nissan dealer just a car dealer

DrEskimo

Grumpy_chap said:

crunk said:

Nissan have a very low opinion of their own battery. This battery has lost 1 bar of health and has lost nearly 60 miles of range they won’t do anything under warranty until it loses 3 bars of health within 10 years or 100k miles. Not ideal at all as it’s lost so much range that it’s unusable for me. It also has a faulty cell which means the when I get to around 30 miles of range it can just shutdown at any moment which left me stranded for 4 hours down a dark road waiting for the RAC. I may have opted for a fix here but the dealer was so rude to me I have rejected the car.

I think rejecting the car is the correct thing to do.

I am surprised at the level of degradation Nissan accept before they deem the battery warranty to kick in.  I wonder what @DrEskimo thinks of that?

Maybe, also, this is a car that Nissan have already done something in relation to the battery for the first owner - maybe favourable costs to exchange to new and then the car has escaped to trade with a known issue as "spares or repair" but, possibly unknown to the supplying dealer, made its way back to the forecourt...

If this is a 30kWh Leaf, then the OP expecting 159miles of range (particularly in the winter with -1 degree temps) has been sorely mislead.

You may get 159miles if you drive exactly as they do in the NEDC test in temps of around 25 degrees, but realistically (as with petrol cars and the claimed MPG) in typical driving you would expect around 3miles/kWh in the winter, and 5 in the height of summer, with around 4miles/kWh on average. 

So your claimed 90miles in a 30kWh Leaf in this temperature is precisely in line with what I would expect. Particularly with 1 bar lost.

You also have to realise that the claimed miles by the car is highly dependent on your previous driving style. As you use it more and more it will get more accurate, but it is not the most accurate measure of battery health. The report from the garage would suffice, but you can also buy yourself a cheap BT OBD dongle (similar to those diagnostic dongles used in petrol cars) and download an app called LeafSpy. This will tell you the exact battery health and any faults.

Now the fact you have a faulty cell I would imagine would be grounds to having that cell replaced under warranty. By all means go down the route of rejection, but I would be mindful that if you are buying an EV you need to find out what the usable battery capacity is, and expect to see the sort of numbers I have detailed above.

crunk

DrEskimo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

crunk said:

Nissan have a very low opinion of their own battery. This battery has lost 1 bar of health and has lost nearly 60 miles of range they won’t do anything under warranty until it loses 3 bars of health within 10 years or 100k miles. Not ideal at all as it’s lost so much range that it’s unusable for me. It also has a faulty cell which means the when I get to around 30 miles of range it can just shutdown at any moment which left me stranded for 4 hours down a dark road waiting for the RAC. I may have opted for a fix here but the dealer was so rude to me I have rejected the car.

I think rejecting the car is the correct thing to do.

I am surprised at the level of degradation Nissan accept before they deem the battery warranty to kick in.  I wonder what @DrEskimo thinks of that?

Maybe, also, this is a car that Nissan have already done something in relation to the battery for the first owner - maybe favourable costs to exchange to new and then the car has escaped to trade with a known issue as "spares or repair" but, possibly unknown to the supplying dealer, made its way back to the forecourt...

If this is a 30kWh Leaf, then the OP expecting 159miles of range (particularly in the winter with -1 degree temps) has been sorely mislead.

You may get 159miles if you drive exactly as they do in the NEDC test in temps of around 25 degrees, but realistically (as with petrol cars and the claimed MPG) in typical driving you would expect around 3miles/kWh in the winter, and 5 in the height of summer, with around 4miles/kWh on average. 

So your claimed 90miles in a 30kWh Leaf in this temperature is precisely in line with what I would expect. Particularly with 1 bar lost.

You also have to realise that the claimed miles by the car is highly dependent on your previous driving style. As you use it more and more it will get more accurate, but it is not the most accurate measure of battery health. The report from the garage would suffice, but you can also buy yourself a cheap BT OBD dongle (similar to those diagnostic dongles used in petrol cars) and download an app called LeafSpy. This will tell you the exact battery health and any faults.

Now the fact you have a faulty cell I would imagine would be grounds to having that cell replaced under warranty. By all means go down the route of rejection, but I would be mindful that if you are buying an EV you need to find out what the usable battery capacity is, and expect to see the sort of numbers I have detailed above.

Hey thanks for the details response. I own a Tesla model 3 and also previously owned a leaf and on the 30kwh I would expect it to at least think it’s going to get 110-130 in the gauge with a balanced 100% charge on the 3.3kwh battery. I was going to give the dealer the opportunity to fix the issue but his initial horrible attitude to this situation after only 48h of having the car concreted my choice to reject the car. Other than a faulty battery the car is near perfect.

it was in face leafspy which confirmed the faulty cell 82.

Another issue was the fact that the leaf went from 30 miles to turtle mode/0 miles then breaking down on. 1.7 mile journey.

DrEskimo

crunk said:

DrEskimo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

crunk said:

Nissan have a very low opinion of their own battery. This battery has lost 1 bar of health and has lost nearly 60 miles of range they won’t do anything under warranty until it loses 3 bars of health within 10 years or 100k miles. Not ideal at all as it’s lost so much range that it’s unusable for me. It also has a faulty cell which means the when I get to around 30 miles of range it can just shutdown at any moment which left me stranded for 4 hours down a dark road waiting for the RAC. I may have opted for a fix here but the dealer was so rude to me I have rejected the car.

I think rejecting the car is the correct thing to do.

I am surprised at the level of degradation Nissan accept before they deem the battery warranty to kick in.  I wonder what @DrEskimo thinks of that?

Maybe, also, this is a car that Nissan have already done something in relation to the battery for the first owner - maybe favourable costs to exchange to new and then the car has escaped to trade with a known issue as "spares or repair" but, possibly unknown to the supplying dealer, made its way back to the forecourt...

If this is a 30kWh Leaf, then the OP expecting 159miles of range (particularly in the winter with -1 degree temps) has been sorely mislead.

You may get 159miles if you drive exactly as they do in the NEDC test in temps of around 25 degrees, but realistically (as with petrol cars and the claimed MPG) in typical driving you would expect around 3miles/kWh in the winter, and 5 in the height of summer, with around 4miles/kWh on average. 

So your claimed 90miles in a 30kWh Leaf in this temperature is precisely in line with what I would expect. Particularly with 1 bar lost.

You also have to realise that the claimed miles by the car is highly dependent on your previous driving style. As you use it more and more it will get more accurate, but it is not the most accurate measure of battery health. The report from the garage would suffice, but you can also buy yourself a cheap BT OBD dongle (similar to those diagnostic dongles used in petrol cars) and download an app called LeafSpy. This will tell you the exact battery health and any faults.

Now the fact you have a faulty cell I would imagine would be grounds to having that cell replaced under warranty. By all means go down the route of rejection, but I would be mindful that if you are buying an EV you need to find out what the usable battery capacity is, and expect to see the sort of numbers I have detailed above.

Hey thanks for the details response. I own a Tesla model 3 and also previously owned a leaf and on the 30kwh I would expect it to at least think it’s going to get 110-130 in the gauge with a balanced 100% charge on the 3.3kwh battery. I was going to give the dealer the opportunity to fix the issue but his initial horrible attitude to this situation after only 48h of having the car concreted my choice to reject the car. Other than a faulty battery the car is near perfect.

it was in face leafspy which confirmed the faulty cell 82.

Another issue was the fact that the leaf went from 30 miles to turtle mode/0 miles then breaking down on. 1.7 mile journey.

You might end up getting that sort of range (despite the predicted 89miles on the GOM), but even with my 41kWh Zoe a full charge is showing around 120miles. As I'm sure you know, if you drive the car hard and with heater up to full, this will all affect the GOM predicted range at the next full charge.

I would say the range is about right for the time of year and with 11bars. As you say though, the faulty cell and rapid drop in range at 30miles is not, and I would fully expect Nissan to replace the faulty cell under the battery warranty. I think this is the only bit you need to press on.

Whether you want to go down the route of rejection or getting the battery repaired under warranty is up to you though. Best of luck. Apologies I can't help much on the legality or process with car rejection.

crunk

Yup I kind of thought the same but the dealers attitude and horrible behaviour made my mind up to just get rid..

This is what leafspy shows 

DrEskimo

crunk said:

Yup I kind of thought the same but the dealers attitude and horrible behaviour made my mind up to just get rid..

This is what leafspy shows 

Yea don't blame you...

I think 85% is the threshold for the first bar to be lost. Again, if you only have 25.5kWh useable then the range does seem right.

I have to say, this was why I avoided Leafs. They really do suffer quite bad degradation due to the lack of active thermal management. I mean my Zoe is only on 10,800 miles but is also 4yrs old now and my battery SoH is 98%. I own the battery, and believe it's warrantied for 8yrs/100k miles and also will be replaced if it gets below 70-75%, but I highly doubt it will get close to that...I know early 22kWh Zoe's with over 100k miles that are still above 90% battery health.

[Deleted User]

crunk said:

DrEskimo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

crunk said:

Nissan have a very low opinion of their own battery. This battery has lost 1 bar of health and has lost nearly 60 miles of range they won’t do anything under warranty until it loses 3 bars of health within 10 years or 100k miles. Not ideal at all as it’s lost so much range that it’s unusable for me. It also has a faulty cell which means the when I get to around 30 miles of range it can just shutdown at any moment which left me stranded for 4 hours down a dark road waiting for the RAC. I may have opted for a fix here but the dealer was so rude to me I have rejected the car.

I think rejecting the car is the correct thing to do.

I am surprised at the level of degradation Nissan accept before they deem the battery warranty to kick in.  I wonder what @DrEskimo thinks of that?

Maybe, also, this is a car that Nissan have already done something in relation to the battery for the first owner - maybe favourable costs to exchange to new and then the car has escaped to trade with a known issue as "spares or repair" but, possibly unknown to the supplying dealer, made its way back to the forecourt...

If this is a 30kWh Leaf, then the OP expecting 159miles of range (particularly in the winter with -1 degree temps) has been sorely mislead.

You may get 159miles if you drive exactly as they do in the NEDC test in temps of around 25 degrees, but realistically (as with petrol cars and the claimed MPG) in typical driving you would expect around 3miles/kWh in the winter, and 5 in the height of summer, with around 4miles/kWh on average. 

So your claimed 90miles in a 30kWh Leaf in this temperature is precisely in line with what I would expect. Particularly with 1 bar lost.

You also have to realise that the claimed miles by the car is highly dependent on your previous driving style. As you use it more and more it will get more accurate, but it is not the most accurate measure of battery health. The report from the garage would suffice, but you can also buy yourself a cheap BT OBD dongle (similar to those diagnostic dongles used in petrol cars) and download an app called LeafSpy. This will tell you the exact battery health and any faults.

Now the fact you have a faulty cell I would imagine would be grounds to having that cell replaced under warranty. By all means go down the route of rejection, but I would be mindful that if you are buying an EV you need to find out what the usable battery capacity is, and expect to see the sort of numbers I have detailed above.

Hey thanks for the details response. I own a Tesla model 3 and also previously owned a leaf and on the 30kwh I would expect it to at least think it’s going to get 110-130 in the gauge with a balanced 100% charge on the 3.3kwh battery. I was going to give the dealer the opportunity to fix the issue but his initial horrible attitude to this situation after only 48h of having the car concreted my choice to reject the car. Other than a faulty battery the car is near perfect.

it was in face leafspy which confirmed the faulty cell 82.

Another issue was the fact that the leaf went from 30 miles to turtle mode/0 miles then breaking down on. 1.7 mile journey.

You own a Tesla and yet are going through a finance company for another electric car (that you seemingly didn't look at before purchase) with a typical APR of 30%?
Hmmm. 

crunk

camelot1971 said:

crunk said:

DrEskimo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

crunk said:

Nissan have a very low opinion of their own battery. This battery has lost 1 bar of health and has lost nearly 60 miles of range they won’t do anything under warranty until it loses 3 bars of health within 10 years or 100k miles. Not ideal at all as it’s lost so much range that it’s unusable for me. It also has a faulty cell which means the when I get to around 30 miles of range it can just shutdown at any moment which left me stranded for 4 hours down a dark road waiting for the RAC. I may have opted for a fix here but the dealer was so rude to me I have rejected the car.

I think rejecting the car is the correct thing to do.

I am surprised at the level of degradation Nissan accept before they deem the battery warranty to kick in.  I wonder what @DrEskimo thinks of that?

Maybe, also, this is a car that Nissan have already done something in relation to the battery for the first owner - maybe favourable costs to exchange to new and then the car has escaped to trade with a known issue as "spares or repair" but, possibly unknown to the supplying dealer, made its way back to the forecourt...

If this is a 30kWh Leaf, then the OP expecting 159miles of range (particularly in the winter with -1 degree temps) has been sorely mislead.

You may get 159miles if you drive exactly as they do in the NEDC test in temps of around 25 degrees, but realistically (as with petrol cars and the claimed MPG) in typical driving you would expect around 3miles/kWh in the winter, and 5 in the height of summer, with around 4miles/kWh on average. 

So your claimed 90miles in a 30kWh Leaf in this temperature is precisely in line with what I would expect. Particularly with 1 bar lost.

You also have to realise that the claimed miles by the car is highly dependent on your previous driving style. As you use it more and more it will get more accurate, but it is not the most accurate measure of battery health. The report from the garage would suffice, but you can also buy yourself a cheap BT OBD dongle (similar to those diagnostic dongles used in petrol cars) and download an app called LeafSpy. This will tell you the exact battery health and any faults.

Now the fact you have a faulty cell I would imagine would be grounds to having that cell replaced under warranty. By all means go down the route of rejection, but I would be mindful that if you are buying an EV you need to find out what the usable battery capacity is, and expect to see the sort of numbers I have detailed above.

Hey thanks for the details response. I own a Tesla model 3 and also previously owned a leaf and on the 30kwh I would expect it to at least think it’s going to get 110-130 in the gauge with a balanced 100% charge on the 3.3kwh battery. I was going to give the dealer the opportunity to fix the issue but his initial horrible attitude to this situation after only 48h of having the car concreted my choice to reject the car. Other than a faulty battery the car is near perfect.

it was in face leafspy which confirmed the faulty cell 82.

Another issue was the fact that the leaf went from 30 miles to turtle mode/0 miles then breaking down on. 1.7 mile journey.

You own a Tesla and yet are going through a finance company for another electric car (that you seemingly didn't look at before purchase) with a typical APR of 30%?
Hmmm. 

Yes I own a Tesla which I finished paying off on finance this year. Now I got a Nissan Leaf. I got the apr much much lower than this thanks.. I am not quite sure what your comment has anything to do with anything so don’t troll. I like electric cars and I am a day trader so my money is much better in my day trader account than invested in cars so paying hp/pcp/personal loan works great for my life style thanks.

crunk

Not sure why I need to justify or explain to a troll but here are the cars together on my drive way yesterday. My Tesla and my wife’s leaf.  I did look at the lead before purchase but you can’t check a faulty cell on a test drive or forecourt? It only became apparent the next day after a full charge!! Still not sure how your post is helpful @camelot1971