Resident Landlord/Lodging Query (creating a living room/kitchen for lodger)

Ammonite1

Hello

Background: I'm currently a Resident Landlord with a lodger and we have been living together for over two years in my three bedroom terrace house. It's been my 2nd experience of living with someone at the property under a LL/Lodger arrangement and I have used a Lodger Agreement (excluded license agreement for letting a room in your own home (rolling four week contract), SpareRoom). The house has ample space for us, which is spread over three floors. 

Future plan: Having lived with people for a long time now and having let rooms for over 8 years (both under AST (before I was a owner of the property) and Lodger Agreement), I am starting to think of meeting my growing need/desire for privacy and more of my 'own' space. Future ideas:

• change the large master bedroom into a livingroom with kitchen for lodger use
• change the current living space for my sole use.
• change share of garden to a half week basis (allowing for access to bins and part-time use of courtyard garden)
• change cleaning from shared role to a service (once a fortnight)
• maintain lodger's current attic room
• maintian my small bedroom 
• maintain shared use of the sole family bathroom

Query: Would these changes allow me to still have a Lodger Agreement (shared bathroom only and cleaning service)? Would a small kicthen (Ikea) with electric cooker and plumbing need building regs? Would I be able to justify higher rent for Lodger Agreement for two rooms for lodger, even with less overall use of house? How would you approach this idea/change with your lodger without unnessary worry or angst? Reasonable time frame to give lodger time to process and chose if they would like to take on? Any other points to consider?

Many thanks!

References:
Lodger Agreement: spareroom
Governemnt Advice: gov.uk rent-room-in-your-home

Ammonite1

Anyone out there who can help? 

zagubov

Please be patient. It takes a while for enough knowledgeable posters to log in and read these posts. 

[Deleted User]

Ammonite1 said:

Hello

Background: I'm currently a Resident Landlord with a lodger and we have been living together for over two years in my three bedroom terrace house. It's been my 2nd experience of living with someone at the property under a LL/Lodger arrangement and I have used a Lodger Agreement (excluded license agreement for letting a room in your own home (rolling four week contract), SpareRoom). The house has ample space for us, which is spread over three floors. 

Future plan: Having lived with people for a long time now and having let rooms for over 8 years (both under AST (before I was a owner of the property) and Lodger Agreement), I am starting to think of meeting my growing need/desire for privacy and more of my 'own' space. Future ideas:

• change the large master bedroom into a livingroom with kitchen for lodger use
• change the current living space for my sole use.
• change share of garden to a half week basis (allowing for access to bins and part-time use of courtyard garden)
• change cleaning from shared role to a service (once a fortnight)
• maintain lodger's current attic room
• maintian my small bedroom 
• maintain shared use of the sole family bathroom

Query: Would these changes allow me to still have a Lodger Agreement (shared bathroom only and cleaning service)? Would a small kicthen (Ikea) with electric cooker and plumbing need building regs? Would I be able to justify higher rent for Lodger Agreement for two rooms for lodger, even with less overall use of house? How would you approach this idea/change with your lodger without unnessary worry or angst? Reasonable time frame to give lodger time to process and chose if they would like to take on? Any other points to consider?

Many thanks!

References:
Lodger Agreement: spareroom
Governemnt Advice: gov.uk rent-room-in-your-home

 Id be worried about the council tax situation if creating their own kitchen. 

Ammonite1

zagubov good reminder, thanks

_shel that's a great point to research- thank you !

greatcrested

You clearly have in mind the risk of creating an AST which has significant legal implications in granting your occupant additional protection and rights.

As you clearly know, where facilities are shared with a resident landlord, he is an 'Excuded Occupier', excluded from the rights afforded a tenant under the Housing Act.

Where he has self-contained accomodation, he falls within the Housing Act (1988).

What you are describing is something in between. I am not going to say definitively such a person would be a tenant, nor an Excluded Occupier'. In a case like this it would be for a court to consider all the circumstances and decide.

1) separate living areas for you/occupant (O), own kitchen for O; - both suggest tenancy

2) shared bathroom; cleaning service; shared (I assume?) access/front door; - all suggest lodger

Making clear that you have access to O's areas (no locks on his doors) adds weight to the lodger claim

Would these changes allow me to still have a Lodger Agreement (shared bathroom only and cleaning service)? see above

Would a small kicthen (Ikea) with electric cooker and plumbing need building regs? I'm 95% sure yes

Would I be able to justify higher rent for Lodger Agreement for two rooms for lodger, even with less overall use of house? Probably but it's down to market forces and what those looking for accommodation want. Negotiate.

How would you approach this idea/change with your lodger without unnessary worry or angst?  errr... talk to lodger? Over tea and a nice home-made cake.

Reasonable time frame to give lodger time to process and chose if they would like to take on? ask lodger how long he'd like to think it over.

Any other points to consider? well obviously you need to cost out the work required, and set that against any possible increase in rent, increase (or loss?!) in property value, and benefits in terms of your personal lifestyle.

LodgerLandlord (21 tips from solicitor Tessa Shepperson + General information site)

Landlordzone (Q & A on taking in lodgers)

Renting out rooms in your home (Government info)

Rent a Room Scheme (HMRC guide for tax-free income from lodgers)

Landlord Lodger Guide (legal and practical advice)

Lodger Site (sample contract, practical and legal tips)

Ammonite1

greatcrested Thank you for such a comprehensive response and yes I agreed- it is somewhat a grey area in terms of whether a shared bathroom only, no locks and cleaning service are still enough grounds for it to remain under a Lodger Agreement (excluded license/occupier). I currently charge £350 inclusive of bills for a medium bedroom- which in our area is below market average (even for living with LL).
I like your tea and cake idea - also just wondered if better to raise once it's a likely plan or just an idea?
@_shel raised a really important point re council tax- which may likely blow this idea up from what I'm currently reading But I'm planning to contact the local council next week.

Big thanks!

SDLT_Geek

OP might find this thread interesting about an additional council tax banding when a lodger has their own cooking facilities: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6225648/voa-complaint-and-council-calls-regarding-my-lodgers/p1. There the poster thought it was a scam, but then received the official letter from the VOA.

Ammonite1

SDLT_Geek Brilliant- thank you so much

FreeBear

Ammonite1 said: Would a small kitchen (Ikea) with electric cooker and plumbing need building regs?

The kitchen area would need be compliant with building regs, but it doesn't have to be signed off by BC. The electrics would need to be installed by a "competent person" and appropriate certificates supplied (this would be in lieu of BR sign off). You would also need to provide adequate ventilation (extractor hood and/or vent) which would require a fair size hole in an external wall.

Also consider the fire risk, mitigated to some extent by smoke alarms & fire extinguishers/blankets. Vermin may also be attracted to any waste food & scraps..

greatcrested

I'd think hard before approaching the council. You might simply open a can or worms! Certainly don't do so till you have pretty much decided what you want, and have a full understanding of all the implications.