VOA complaint and Council calls regarding my lodgers

rpgo

Hello all,

A few days ago, I missed a phone call (private number) from a woman identifying herself as someone that works at the council for the street naming and numbering department, I only ended up listening to a voicemail message. She knew my name and address, said there was an issue with my property and asked to call her back. Later on the same day, I received another call from a mobile phone number, this time a man also from the council, explaining there was an issue with my property at the VOA but he wasn't exactly sure what the issue was. He asked my situation and I explained I recently took another lodger (I rent 2 rooms in the house to 2 lodgers) and that my girlfriend also moved in with me recently. I thought the issue would be related to the recent changes and thought I was clarifying my situation. He then asked me if anyone had a business registered with the house, I said no. He then asked me if I recently converted the house into flats or a business park, I clarified I did no such thing. His last question just before he hang up was if my lodgers had kitchens in their rooms or if they cooked in their rooms, which I found incredibly odd. I replied I couldn't be sure if they cooked or not in the rooms and that they only have a shared kitchen on the ground floor for the cooking. He hang up and promised to call me back once he clarified with the VOA what the issue was exactly.

The next day I had a voicemail from the same man desperately asking for confirmation that I hadn't contacted VOA asking for information. When I called back and said I didn't call VOA since I felt I didn't need to, he confirmed me that a neighbour had made a complaint with the VOA. The complaint was that one of the lodgers was seen cooking inside their room! I found it unbelievable how a neighbour would complain to a government agency with regards to what they see people do inside their rooms on neighbouring properties. He then proceeded to imply that my property has more than 1 kitchen, that it classifies as an HMO and he needs to report his findings to the government. That it is the law and I should lookup self contained units and HMOs. The government, he explains, is now at the liberty to decide whether to split my property into several properties and that my council tax would change from just a single band for the whole property to 2 individual lower bands for each of the properties.

I found the entire episode truly unbelievable but the man seemed too eloquent for me to feel like it was a scam call. He also called from a mobile phone number and said I can call him back at any time if I have any questions. I found online that VOA and council tax reduction scam calls are pretty common but can't shake off the fact that a neighbour would stare for long enough into someone else's window, assume they are cooking and complain to a government agency.

I also can't find any law that forces your property into an HMO if it has 2 kitchens on it. I mean, what is "a kitchen"? My lodgers can't have a fridge or microwave inside their room? I'm not exactly sure if my lodgers have any kitchen appliances in their rooms, only that one of them asked me if they could have a small fridge in the room, which I was ok with.

A very experienced landlord friend of mine, is adamant that it must be a scam, that councils always notify you through letters, not phone calls. That he never gave me a reference number, that they wouldn't speak to me in this way and that all he knew was my phone number, name and address. Why would he need confirmation that I didn't call the VOA about the complaint before I call him back? But then again, the man never asked for money, bank details or fees, he is simply informing me of the situation and that it is now up to the government to decide on what to do. He seemed genuine about trying to solve the issue and spent loads of time on the phone, he never rushed, stuttered or misspoke the whole time.

I intend to call VOA to confirm if indeed there is a complaint on my property and call the council to check if they really called or not, but I'll have to wait for next week most likely.

Any clarification is highly appreciated.
Thank you for your time.

tacpot12

This does sound like some sort of scam. The fact he was concerned that you had called the VOA is the most unusual aspect of this. 

Your property cannot be determined to be a HMO just on the basis of having two kitchens. The definition of a HMO is given here: Private renting: Houses in multiple occupation - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

I would wait until you receive something in writing, with a reference number, and challenge any determination that your property is more than one property. If they call you back, ask them to contact you only in writing. If they persist you know for sure that they are scammers, local authority staff would abide by any request to not contact you by phone. I wouldn't call the council or VOA myself. If they have a problem, let them come to you. 

carefullycautious

You can clear this up very quickly by phoning your council and asking if they have phoned you. If you have the mans name all the better. I expect the next few call will be to try and extricate money from you. Scam written all over it!!!

anselld

Three lodgers would make it an HMO but two does not.  

En-suite rooms with cooking facilities can be classified as self contained units and get a separate banding, however there are several inconsistencies that suggest a scam or just a wind-up...
The VOA do not "report findings to the Government".  They make the decision themselves, it is their job.
The VOA do not determine what is a HMO, and it has nothing to do with the number of kitchens.
Likewise, being an HMO or not does not affect the CT banding of a property.
As the previous poster stated there would be letters if there was a problem.

FreeBear

rpgo said: I couldn't be sure if they cooked or not in the rooms and that they only have a shared kitchen on the ground floor for the cooking.

With my lodger, I have one simple rule - No food to be stored/eaten in bedrooms.

This avoids crockery & utensils disappearing from the kitchen, reduces the risk of vermin coming in to the house.. And moldy food left in a room is quite frankly, disgusting. Food preparation needs to be done in the hygienic confines of a kitchen and consumed at a table (either dining room or patio).

As for the phone call - If it smells like a scam, it is a scam.

If the guy calls back, tell him to put it in writing.

davidmcn

rpgo said:
A few days ago, I missed a phone call (private number) from a woman identifying herself as someone that works at the council for the street naming and numbering department, I only ended up listening to a voicemail message. She knew my name and address

And how did she know your phone number?

I'd expect first contact for this sort of thing (if it happens at all) to be in writing.

UnderOffer

I think this sounds like the actual neighbour who has complained is doing the phoning under the guise of the Council! Nothing like trying to intimidate you with all the statements of HMO and increased charges etc., and the concern that you might have contacted the VOA direct. 

Did you disclose your mobile number when advertising for lodgers? Neighbour could have noted it down then. 

greatcrested

I agree it's 99% certain to be a scam - either to intimidate (eg neghbour revenge for some perceived slight) or ro extract money (not sure how but scammers build a 'story' before they actually ask for anything).

But I'd not contact the council myself. You might actually open a genuine equiry into number of lodgers, self-cotained units etc....

As advised, the council will write if they wnat to take any action.

pinkshoes

Do you have the names of the two people who phoned? No one from the council would phone and not give a name.
Have you googled the name? Searched it up on their website?

Definitely phone to confirm that the phone calls were made, as this seems like a scam to me. Someone fishing for information... probably the neighbour trying to get information to see if they are right as they want to make a complaint as they have nothing better to do!

rpgo

Your property cannot be determined to be a HMO just on the basis of having two kitchens. The definition of a HMO is given here: Private renting: Houses in multiple occupation - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So, it's me and my girlfriend plus 2 unrelated lodgers in the house. Are lodgers considered tenants? I thought lodgers weren't tenants. My lodgers agreement clearly specifies that they are not tenants. So am I correct to say that there is no way my house can be considered an HMO based on that alone?

En-suite rooms with cooking facilities can be classified as self contained units and get a separate banding

I think this is what he implied. If people cook in their rooms, it has a kitchen and if it has a kitchen, it is a self contained unit and therefor, it is an HMO.

And how did she know your phone number?

The number could have easily be phished from me while advertising the latest room on spare room. I dealt with a lot of people on it. Also, my name and address can be easily found on Nextdoor social media, specially easy for neighbours. But, I also have my phone number registered with the council, so if it is indeed the council, I'm not surprised they can call me that easily.

I think this sounds like the actual neighbour who has complained is doing the phoning under the guise of the Council!

That is surely criminal, no? The first call was made with a private number but on the voice mail they give you a number to call back. The second call was done through a normal mobile number. Why not hide your number if it is a scam? Burner numbers or an actual neighbour?

Do you have the names of the two people who phoned? No one from the council would phone and not give a name. Have you googled the name? Searched it up on their website?

The lady on the voicemail only said her first name, but she does refer to the right phone number from the department she says she is calling from. The man only told me his surname and my phone identifies him through Samsung smart call feature as a "Richard" but I don't think he ever said his name was Richard. They do have the council voicemail routine of repeating themselves twice and leaving their name, reason for call and number to call back. I've shown both voicemail messages to friends asking if they think it is the council and they all think it is. I've searched the names, phone numbers and council website but found nothing. The man I spoke to says he is an inspector for the council and that he "guides landlords" on how to do things. He also said that he also works for VOA, which I found questionable.

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 Coincidence or not, today I received an email from HM Land Registry with a 6 month report on my property alert activity. It says "There is no alert notifications issued on this property". Not sure if related/significant or not.

greatcrested

rpgo said:

Your property cannot be determined to be a HMO just on the basis of having two kitchens. The definition of a HMO is given here: Private renting: Houses in multiple occupation - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So, it's me and my girlfriend plus 2 unrelated lodgers in the house. Are lodgers considered tenants? I thought lodgers weren't tenants. My lodgers agreement clearly specifies that they are not tenants. So am I correct to say that there is no way my house can be considered an HMO based on that alone?

En-suite rooms with cooking facilities can be classified as self contained units and get a separate banding

I think this is what he implied. If people cook in their rooms, it has a kitchen and if it has a kitchen, it is a self contained unit and therefor, it is an HMO.

And how did she know your phone number?

The number could have easily be phished from me while advertising the latest room on spare room. I dealt with a lot of people on it. Also, my name and address can be easily found on Nextdoor social media, specially easy for neighbours. But, I also have my phone number registered with the council, so if it is indeed the council, I'm not surprised they can call me that easily.

I think this sounds like the actual neighbour who has complained is doing the phoning under the guise of the Council!

That is surely criminal, no? The first call was made with a private number but on the voice mail they give you a number to call back. The second call was done through a normal mobile number. Why not hide your number if it is a scam? Burner numbers or an actual neighbour?

Do you have the names of the two people who phoned? No one from the council would phone and not give a name. Have you googled the name? Searched it up on their website?

The lady on the voicemail only said her first name, but she does refer to the right phone number from the department she says she is calling from. The man only told me his surname and my phone identifies him through Samsung smart call feature as a "Richard" but I don't think he ever said his name was Richard. They do have the council voicemail routine of repeating themselves twice and leaving their name, reason for call and number to call back. I've shown both voicemail messages to friends asking if they think it is the council and they all think it is. I've searched the names, phone numbers and council website but found nothing. The man I spoke to says he is an inspector for the council and that he "guides landlords" on how to do things. He also said that he also works for VOA, which I found questionable.

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 Coincidence or not, today I received an email from HM Land Registry with a 6 month report on my property alert activity. It says "There is no alert notifications issued on this property". Not sure if related/significant or not.

Lodgers are (nearly always) no tenants. However that is not relevat in terms of whether it an HMO or not. Have you read the HMO link provided earlier?

Simple and sensible solution is to cooking in your lodgers' rooms (for a variety of reasons outlined earlier). Your home: your rules.

How whoever it was obtained your number seems irrelevant. It's the content and verity of the all that matters, which has been discussed fully. Ignore.

Not sure what criminal act might have take place unless and until money is fraudulently demanded.

The LR send 6 monthly reports if you have signed up to their free alert product which I assume you have.