New Ryanair Advert - Bit Naughty

HampshireH

epm-84 said:

HampshireH said:

I think these sort of forums are a great example of how people can be fooled by a slogan or do think that Ryanair will refund them etc or don't read the terms and conditions before buying or do choose the fly in a pandemic, with some of the posts people seek support and guidance on.

Based on the MSE poll on refunds for cancelled flights, most of the people having issues are the ones who purchased prior to a pandemic being declared, as they are the ones who don't benefit from any new re-booking conditions that airlines started introducing for flights purchased during the pandemic.

Labeling all those seeking help as people who chose to buy or fly during a pandemic is a common problem on forums like these. 

Who labelled all those seeking help on here?

You have quoted a post which was a response to another but gave a few examples of when people do ask for help. I have acknowledged that this is what the forum is for and also that some require support after doing so.

Likewise an MSE poll based on people previously impacted, who booked before the pandemic won't help those who see the Ryanair Advert and book a holiday .

I posted as I felt the advert was misleading and people could be negatively affected by it should the book without checking things first.

bagand96

CKhalvashi said:

I'd recommend booking with a proper airline that employs their staff on proper terms, unlike Ryanair's pay to fly schemes and fake 'redundancies', by switching their bases between group airlines to screw their crews.

It’s becoming harder and harder to do that! Ryanair of course write the book on screwing their employees, but plenty of others have followed and taken it further than even Ryanair. Also, I don’t believe Ryanair partake in Pay to Fly (whilst that term has a broad definition, Ryanair haven’t taken it as far as some of the charter airlines in Europe)

Butts

Far better booking BA than Ryanair if doing it for quite far ahead....
Much better protection if it all goes belly up, at least in respect of a refund or FTV.

bagand96

Butts said:

Far better booking BA than Ryanair if doing it for quite far ahead....
Much better protection if it all goes belly up, at least in respect of a refund or FTV.

Ah yes, we were just talking about airlines with little respect for their staff!

Ryanair are waiving the change fee for bookings made before 31st January, for travel before 30th September.  Dates and destination can be changed.  Any fare difference will be payable. 

BA are waiving the change fee for new bookings (no end date specified), for travel before 31st August. Dates and destination can be changed. Any fare difference will be payable.  BA’s edge over Ryanair is that they also have the option to cancel for a FTV voucher (not a refund though*)

*of course, as @Butts can attest, by booking a package holiday with BA Holidays you would get another level of protection/options due the the PTR Regulations. 

Just seen a TV advert from Jess Glynne Airways encouraging me to book my 2021 holiday... they’re all at it, they’re all desperate for cash!

CKhalvashi

bagand96 said:

CKhalvashi said:

I'd recommend booking with a proper airline that employs their staff on proper terms, unlike Ryanair's pay to fly schemes and fake 'redundancies', by switching their bases between group airlines to screw their crews.

It’s becoming harder and harder to do that! Ryanair of course write the book on screwing their employees, but plenty of others have followed and taken it further than even Ryanair. Also, I don’t believe Ryanair partake in Pay to Fly (whilst that term has a broad definition, Ryanair haven’t taken it as far as some of the charter airlines in Europe)

Just tell the crew at Vilnius (and several other bases) that, they were told the Ryanair base has closed with immediate effect in August.

The routes were quickly picked up by Buzz the following day (which is Ryanair Poland) with crew on substantially worse terms. Malta Air (Ryanair on a Maltese registration) has also been used at a number of bases to worsen the terms of crew. Obviously they're not happy to simply play one airport off against another now, it's one airline against another to get rid of any crew who completely correctly refuse to be screwed.

Naturally the €3bn they tried to withhold from their customers, in complete defiance of EU consumer protection legislation, to boost their own receivables balance means not only are they attempting to screw airports and crew, the general public come into this too. Not a good combination IMO and definitely not a proper or reputable company.

Butts said:

Far better booking BA than Ryanair if doing it for quite far ahead....
Much better protection if it all goes belly up, at least in respect of a refund or FTV.

Not BA, any airline with decent flexibility will happily do.

bagand96

CKhalvashi said:

bagand96 said:

CKhalvashi said:

I'd recommend booking with a proper airline that employs their staff on proper terms, unlike Ryanair's pay to fly schemes and fake 'redundancies', by switching their bases between group airlines to screw their crews.

It’s becoming harder and harder to do that! Ryanair of course write the book on screwing their employees, but plenty of others have followed and taken it further than even Ryanair. Also, I don’t believe Ryanair partake in Pay to Fly (whilst that term has a broad definition, Ryanair haven’t taken it as far as some of the charter airlines in Europe)

Just tell the crew at Vilnius (and several other bases) that, they were told the Ryanair base has closed with immediate effect in August.

The routes were quickly picked up by Buzz the following day (which is Ryanair Poland) with crew on substantially worse terms. Malta Air (Ryanair on a Maltese registration) has also been used at a number of bases to worsen the terms of crew. Obviously they're not happy to simply play one airport off against another now, it's one airline against another to get rid of any crew who completely correctly refuse to be screwed.

Naturally the €3bn they tried to withhold from their customers, in complete defiance of EU consumer protection legislation, to boost their own receivables balance means not only are they attempting to screw airports and crew, the general public come into this too. Not a good combination IMO and definitely not a proper or reputable company.

Butts said:

Far better booking BA than Ryanair if doing it for quite far ahead....
Much better protection if it all goes belly up, at least in respect of a refund or FTV.

Not BA, any airline with decent flexibility will happily do.

I agree, Ryanair wrote the book.  Most airlines have seized an opportunity with Covid. Similar stories in the purple airline from Hungary.  I think easyJet tried to at least keep it civil, although they took a lot of persuasion from the unions to do so. 

Flags of convenience, and companies within companies seem to be the latest fashion.  Ryanair had their eureka moment after  summer 2017 when they were desperately short of crew and had to cancel large portions of their schedule. They had no choice but to improve conditions and even let unions in (a cold day in hell for MOL). Using Lauda, Buzz, and Malta Air just helps them reset those enhanced terms and union agreements. 

But where one leads, others follow (IAG setting up a transatlantic base out of a Manchester under the Aer Lingus UK brand and not BA...) 

[Deleted User]

Who is actually most to blame here though?  My opinion is that it is us the consumers.  No organization can thrive unless they “sell” the products.   People shouted for cheaper fares and as competition grew the prices reduced.  Plenty of complaints about conditions etc but people continued to book and as people have short memories, when it comes to saving a few buck, will return to booking with Ryanair et al.  Not many stand on laurels when it comes to it.   I am sure there are millions grateful to the likes of RA providing flights they might not have otherwise had funds for?  Not excusing them or disagreeing with any comments just saying...... 

CKhalvashi

Tedber said:

Who is actually most to blame here though?  My opinion is that it is us the consumers.  No organization can thrive unless they “sell” the products.   People shouted for cheaper fares and as competition grew the prices reduced.  Plenty of complaints about conditions etc but people continued to book and as people have short memories, when it comes to saving a few buck, will return to booking with Ryanair et al.  Not many stand on laurels when it comes to it.   I am sure there are millions grateful to the likes of RA providing flights they might not have otherwise had funds for?  Not excusing them or disagreeing with any comments just saying...... 

OH works for an airline, so probably I'm more sensitive to how the crew are treated than most.

I have in the past used Ryanair, last time in March before borders closed, however won't be using them again due to their treatment of passengers/crew/airports this year. It took serving them with a Statutory Demand (and believe me, I'd love to be the person to bring MoL down, not this time though....) to be refunded.

Wizz look like they're becoming Ryanair but with better customer service and crew on proper contracts (to be clear, they've reduced basic pay by 25% for a year, so there is a strict time limit), so a serious contender for a decent budget carrier. I will also note that they have the slots for a 3 plane base now at Manchester for S21, so expect new announcements in the next weeks regarding expansion.

epm-84

HampshireH said:

epm-84 said:

HampshireH said:

I think these sort of forums are a great example of how people can be fooled by a slogan or do think that Ryanair will refund them etc or don't read the terms and conditions before buying or do choose the fly in a pandemic, with some of the posts people seek support and guidance on.

Based on the MSE poll on refunds for cancelled flights, most of the people having issues are the ones who purchased prior to a pandemic being declared, as they are the ones who don't benefit from any new re-booking conditions that airlines started introducing for flights purchased during the pandemic.

Labeling all those seeking help as people who chose to buy or fly during a pandemic is a common problem on forums like these. 

Who labelled all those seeking help on here?

You have quoted a post which was a response to another but gave a few examples of when people do ask for help. I have acknowledged that this is what the forum is for and also that some require support after doing so.

Likewise an MSE poll based on people previously impacted, who booked before the pandemic won't help those who see the Ryanair Advert and book a holiday .

I posted as I felt the advert was misleading and people could be negatively affected by it should the book without checking things first.

Your words:

I think these sort of forums are a great example of how people ... think that Ryanair will refund them etc or don't read the terms and conditions before buying or do choose the fly in a pandemic, with some of the posts people seek support and guidance on.

You didn't give any specific examples of posts.  From the posts I've read on here and also taking into consideration the MSE poll, the Ryanair customers who have had the most problems are those who were not aware of any issues at the time of booking and expected Ryanair to fulfill their legal obligations if problems did occur, even if they didn't expect 'gestures of goodwill' from a company like Ryanair.  Therefore, as far as I can tell you've labelled everyone who planned to fly with Ryanair since March as someone who decided to choose to buy or fly during a pandemic, which is more misleading than the misleading Ryanair slogan you don't like!  Like many people if I'd known a global pandemic was going to be declared in March 2020 then I would have made sure I'd had nice holiday before the pandemic but no-one got to choose when the pandemic started, just like we don't get to choose (or know) when it will end.

epm-84

Tedber said:

Who is actually most to blame here though?  My opinion is that it is us the consumers.  No organization can thrive unless they “sell” the products.   People shouted for cheaper fares and as competition grew the prices reduced.  Plenty of complaints about conditions etc but people continued to book and as people have short memories, when it comes to saving a few buck, will return to booking with Ryanair et al.  Not many stand on laurels when it comes to it.   I am sure there are millions grateful to the likes of RA providing flights they might not have otherwise had funds for?  Not excusing them or disagreeing with any comments just saying...... 

I'm of the opinion if you see very low fares on a route then either fares that low won't exist in a few years time or the route will cease to exist in a few years time.  Towards the end of last year I noticed Ryanair had some very cheap fares to Riga, Kiev, Bologna and Zadar from Manchester - those are all routes they are now pulling or already have pulled.

Ryanair are also pulling the Manchester-Lisbon route.  That was a route they had a rival on - TAP Portugal, who also offered competitive fares.  Ryanair must have done alright on the route when TAP Portugal was in the process of being privatised and there was frequent strike action but now things have settled down at TAP Portugal, Ryanair are now pulling the Manchester-Lisbon route as well.

I think a lot of people are aware of instances like the above so if they see an option for £50 return with Ryanair they book it because it might be the cheapest option is £150+ with another airline next year.