Land not registered but part of the property purchase

davidmcn

LLizz said:

mrsS_2 said:

davidmcn said:

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No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.            

This is what my solicitor did when we bought this house.  She pointed out that the first ten foot of the front garden wasn’t on the deeds ( basically over time the grass verges have been amalgamated into the gardens in the bottom half of the road) that it’s very common and she just registered the land so there were 2 deeds and then asked if I wanted them combined into one(which obviously I did).  It was simple I wasn’t even charged any extra for it.   But I was probably a bit lucky on that one!  Nothing to do with the selling side at all . Exchanged contracts 3 weeks after offer - but this was a few years ago and I think searches take longer now though.  I would ask your solicitor a few more questions as if the process is still the same, expecting the other sides solicitor to do it might actually cause a delay?

Okay, we will try this in the new year. 

At what point did your solicitor do this? I wonder, as if they did it before contract exchange and it all fell through, we’re going to have something in our name that shouldn’t be, no? 

No. Registration of your title happens after completion. 

LLizz

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

mrsS_2 said:

davidmcn said:

» show previous quotes

No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.            

This is what my solicitor did when we bought this house.  She pointed out that the first ten foot of the front garden wasn’t on the deeds ( basically over time the grass verges have been amalgamated into the gardens in the bottom half of the road) that it’s very common and she just registered the land so there were 2 deeds and then asked if I wanted them combined into one(which obviously I did).  It was simple I wasn’t even charged any extra for it.   But I was probably a bit lucky on that one!  Nothing to do with the selling side at all . Exchanged contracts 3 weeks after offer - but this was a few years ago and I think searches take longer now though.  I would ask your solicitor a few more questions as if the process is still the same, expecting the other sides solicitor to do it might actually cause a delay?

Okay, we will try this in the new year. 

At what point did your solicitor do this? I wonder, as if they did it before contract exchange and it all fell through, we’re going to have something in our name that shouldn’t be, no? 

No. Registration of your title happens after completion. 

I’m really learning. Is this the same with every house sale then? 

davidmcn

LLizz said:

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

mrsS_2 said:

davidmcn said:

» show previous quotes

No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.            

This is what my solicitor did when we bought this house.  She pointed out that the first ten foot of the front garden wasn’t on the deeds ( basically over time the grass verges have been amalgamated into the gardens in the bottom half of the road) that it’s very common and she just registered the land so there were 2 deeds and then asked if I wanted them combined into one(which obviously I did).  It was simple I wasn’t even charged any extra for it.   But I was probably a bit lucky on that one!  Nothing to do with the selling side at all . Exchanged contracts 3 weeks after offer - but this was a few years ago and I think searches take longer now though.  I would ask your solicitor a few more questions as if the process is still the same, expecting the other sides solicitor to do it might actually cause a delay?

Okay, we will try this in the new year. 

At what point did your solicitor do this? I wonder, as if they did it before contract exchange and it all fell through, we’re going to have something in our name that shouldn’t be, no? 

No. Registration of your title happens after completion. 

I’m really learning. Is this the same with every house sale then? 

Well, yes. Otherwise, as you say, buyers would own the house before they've paid for it. Which would be daft. 

tigerlily74

We have a similar situation. The unregistered land with our property was not conveyed properly when our seller bought it over twenty years ago. After discussion with our solicitor and in light of the fact we can’t wait for our seller to apply for adverse possession (similar reasons to yours) our plan a is to apply for adverse possession after completion, with evidence supplied by the seller, and an indemnity policy. My solicitor will have to report this ‘defect’ to the lender, who may not agree. But our ltv is 18% and it is our dream home so I am hopeful. Our seller and his solicitors don’t seem to want to do anything or evens hair basic information so my solicitor is having to do all the thinking for them which she is not happy  about.

LLizz

tigerlily74 said:

We have a similar situation. The unregistered land with our property was not conveyed properly when our seller bought it over twenty years ago. After discussion with our solicitor and in light of the fact we can’t wait for our seller to apply for adverse possession (similar reasons to yours) our plan a is to apply for adverse possession after completion, with evidence supplied by the seller, and an indemnity policy. My solicitor will have to report this ‘defect’ to the lender, who may not agree. But our ltv is 18% and it is our dream home so I am hopeful. Our seller and his solicitors don’t seem to want to do anything or evens hair basic information so my solicitor is having to do all the thinking for them which she is not happy  about.

Sorry to hear you're struggling with the same. I hadn't even thought about our mortgage. Our ltv is 21% so we are well in. I'm just praying this can all be pulled off much the same as yourself.
I can't see our vendor wanting to do much either -- it took him/his solicitor 4weeks to send over the contract pack - the most BASIC piece of documentation.

SDLT_Geek

Two different situations:
(a)  A property has perfectly good documentary title, but it comes in two parts, one a registered title, the other an unregistered title (made up of conveyances etc).  The buyer's solicitor can give a clean certificate of title.  Both parts will be registered at the Land Registry after completion, one part involving a change of name on the title, the other a first registration.  All normal, routine stuff.
(b)  The seller does not have documentary title to part of the property they have been occupying and so relies on adverse possession to make title.  This is where there will be doubts as to the quality of the title and buyers might want the seller to voluntarily register their title first.  Title insurance might help.  Lenders might be concerned.

LLizz

SDLT_Geek said:

Two different situations:
(a)  A property has perfectly good documentary title, but it comes in two parts, one a registered title, the other an unregistered title (made up of conveyances etc).  The buyer's solicitor can give a clean certificate of title.  Both parts will be registered at the Land Registry after completion, one part involving a change of name on the title, the other a first registration.  All normal, routine stuff.
(b)  The seller does not have documentary title to part of the property they have been occupying and so relies on adverse possession to make title.  This is where there will be doubts as to the quality of the title and buyers might want the seller to voluntarily register their title first.  Title insurance might help.  Lenders might be concerned.

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. This makes sense.
The mistake I think we have been making and had got confused with was the vendors title. We wrongly assumed that to have a title meant the land was registered -- I hadn't realised this wasn't the case. A title can exist without registration.

We were worried we'd be stuck with something not correctly registered - but unless we have an issue like you describe in 'b' this is unlikely to be the case. Though I do wonder why he hasn't been forthcoming with providing the additional title with the contract pack?

My fiance seems fixed on the idea that he wants to have the title as a whole -- the land AND the property in one -- he says for selling on reasons etc (bearing in mind this is our forever home, what is he planning? lol).

But what I think I am being told is (is this right?) --this can happen via his or MY solicitors. And we should query both avenues and go with the quickest?
I've since read these things can be expedited if it is the only thing holding up the sale?

davidmcn

LLizz said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Two different situations:
(a)  A property has perfectly good documentary title, but it comes in two parts, one a registered title, the other an unregistered title (made up of conveyances etc).  The buyer's solicitor can give a clean certificate of title.  Both parts will be registered at the Land Registry after completion, one part involving a change of name on the title, the other a first registration.  All normal, routine stuff.
(b)  The seller does not have documentary title to part of the property they have been occupying and so relies on adverse possession to make title.  This is where there will be doubts as to the quality of the title and buyers might want the seller to voluntarily register their title first.  Title insurance might help.  Lenders might be concerned.

But what I think I am being told is (is this right?) --this can happen via his or MY solicitors. And we should query both avenues and go with the quickest?
I've since read these things can be expedited if it is the only thing holding up the sale?

Yes. But no need to expedite registration if it's being done after completion anyway.

LLizz

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Two different situations:
(a)  A property has perfectly good documentary title, but it comes in two parts, one a registered title, the other an unregistered title (made up of conveyances etc).  The buyer's solicitor can give a clean certificate of title.  Both parts will be registered at the Land Registry after completion, one part involving a change of name on the title, the other a first registration.  All normal, routine stuff.
(b)  The seller does not have documentary title to part of the property they have been occupying and so relies on adverse possession to make title.  This is where there will be doubts as to the quality of the title and buyers might want the seller to voluntarily register their title first.  Title insurance might help.  Lenders might be concerned.

But what I think I am being told is (is this right?) --this can happen via his or MY solicitors. And we should query both avenues and go with the quickest?
I've since read these things can be expedited if it is the only thing holding up the sale?

Yes. But no need to expedite registration if it's being done after completion anyway.

And are there any risks to this? Is there any merit in having it all in place BEFORE completion?

tigerlily74

SDLT_Geek said:

Two different situations:
(a)  A property has perfectly good documentary title, but it comes in two parts, one a registered title, the other an unregistered title (made up of conveyances etc).  The buyer's solicitor can give a clean certificate of title.  Both parts will be registered at the Land Registry after completion, one part involving a change of name on the title, the other a first registration.  All normal, routine stuff.
(b)  The seller does not have documentary title to part of the property they have been occupying and so relies on adverse possession to make title.  This is where there will be doubts as to the quality of the title and buyers might want the seller to voluntarily register their title first.  Title insurance might help.  Lenders might be concerned.

That’s helpful, we are in b. Our plan b is to buy everything that comes under a) (two perfectly good titles) then buy the unregistered land with poor documentation separately. It is a tiny bit of land and so has little impact on the property.