Land not registered but part of the property purchase

LLizz

I’m hoping someone can help us and give a little hope; 
We have had an offer accepted on our forever home after years of saving. It has a good parcel of land advertised and included in the purchase which attracted us as we have dogs who would absolutely LOVE the extra space.

We have received the contract pack however, which indicates the boundary to be half of the size of the plot included.
Confused by this we asked our solicitors to enquire further and it turns out; 
‘ At present the title plan is correct. It is a Land Registry complaint plan and as per the contract the title only includes the boundaries edged in red. I have been informed that the vendor does however, own the land you speak of, included in the listing and shown to you on the viewing of the property, which leads me to believe that this is unregistered land so I have asked the vendors agent to contact the vendors solicitor to gain the title documents for this so we can confirm the same. I have then asked him to advise that they complete an application to the Land Registry to amalgamate the same and provide us with an updated title plan once this has been completed.’

Our solicitor is great and has said after the Xmas break she will raise this as an enquiry and chase as much as possible.

But we’re just wondering - how long is this likely to take?
Our major worry is; our current house is sold with the buyer chomping at the bit to move in - we can rent, to ensure our sale, but obviously our money isn’t bottomless.
The property would also be out of our grasp of the stamp duty holiday should cease and then be applied... 
A conundrum for sure, and one we have no experience in... 

Can anyone offer any idea on how long this may take? 

And how complex this is? 

Thankyou in advance for any responses 🙏🏽

theoretica

You can check the land registry maps online to see if the land is indeed unregistered.  It could be straightforward - 'here are the deeds' or complicated 'but when I bought it the seller said...'. 

davidmcn

LLizz said:

I have then asked him to advise that they complete an application to the Land Registry to amalgamate the same and provide us with an updated title plan once this has been completed.’

That'll take longer. Why doesn't she want to deal with the registration herself?

LLizz

theoretica said:

You can check the land registry maps online to see if the land is indeed unregistered.  It could be straightforward - 'here are the deeds' or complicated 'but when I bought it the seller said...'. 

We have checked the registry and there is nothing on there to say it is registered

LLizz

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

I have then asked him to advise that they complete an application to the Land Registry to amalgamate the same and provide us with an updated title plan once this has been completed.’

That'll take longer. Why doesn't she want to deal with the registration herself?

I’m not sure how she would do this? She can’t act for him... Can she? As she’s our solicitor? So she’s not engaged to deal with this herself... 
Further, should she have to given we were told upon viewing and it has been confirmed (albeit verbally via vendor/agent) since that it all forms part of the sale? 

Also if the sale comes as two separate title deeds (which up to now the land reg website seems to suggest it’s unregistered) or the vendor tries to settle as two separate title deeds - I have read that this will have tax implications or implications on our mortgage as it’d officially be two separate plots?

I’m sorry If I’ve totally misunderstood what you meant. I’ve never dealt with this kind of thing before and really am not familiar with the way land registry works... 

davidmcn

LLizz said:

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

I have then asked him to advise that they complete an application to the Land Registry to amalgamate the same and provide us with an updated title plan once this has been completed.’

That'll take longer. Why doesn't she want to deal with the registration herself?

I’m not sure how she would do this? She can’t act for him... Can she?

No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.

LLizz

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

I have then asked him to advise that they complete an application to the Land Registry to amalgamate the same and provide us with an updated title plan once this has been completed.’

That'll take longer. Why doesn't she want to deal with the registration herself?

I’m not sure how she would do this? She can’t act for him... Can she?

No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.

Ah okay, I understand. Thanks. 

I didn’t even know this could be possible. 

Although first thing that strikes me is, isn’t this a bit of a risk? Ie: we’re going on a wing and a prayer that everything is correctly in his name and would be completing with no title deed?
Is this as unusual and not watertight as it seems to me (a novice): Could this throw up issues when it’s too late? 

Not sure if I’m being over cautious here... Seems a little unfair too, as we were assuming we were buying with all this in place (I know, I know, ‘to assume...’ etc). Didn’t think to ask if a seller has title deeds prior to offer going in, 🤔 

davidmcn

LLizz said:

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

I have then asked him to advise that they complete an application to the Land Registry to amalgamate the same and provide us with an updated title plan once this has been completed.’

That'll take longer. Why doesn't she want to deal with the registration herself?

I’m not sure how she would do this? She can’t act for him... Can she?

No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.

Ah okay, I understand. Thanks. 

I didn’t even know this could be possible. 

Although first thing that strikes me is, isn’t this a bit of a risk? Ie: we’re going on a wing and a prayer that everything is correctly in his name and would be completing with no title deed?
Is this as unusual and not watertight as it seems to me (a novice): Could this throw up issues when it’s too late? 

Not sure if I’m being over cautious here... Seems a little unfair too, as we were assuming we were buying with all this still in place (I know, I know, ‘to assume...’ etc). Didn’t think to ask if a seller has title deeds prior to offer going in, 🤔 

You haven't said the seller has no title deeds. That would be different. They (as far as we can tell) have title deeds, but their title is not (yet) registered. Unless your solicitor is really incompetent, she should be able to work out from the title deeds whether they have a valid title or not.

LLizz

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

davidmcn said:

LLizz said:

I have then asked him to advise that they complete an application to the Land Registry to amalgamate the same and provide us with an updated title plan once this has been completed.’

That'll take longer. Why doesn't she want to deal with the registration herself?

I’m not sure how she would do this? She can’t act for him... Can she?

No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.

Ah okay, I understand. Thanks. 

I didn’t even know this could be possible. 

Although first thing that strikes me is, isn’t this a bit of a risk? Ie: we’re going on a wing and a prayer that everything is correctly in his name and would be completing with no title deed?
Is this as unusual and not watertight as it seems to me (a novice): Could this throw up issues when it’s too late? 

Not sure if I’m being over cautious here... Seems a little unfair too, as we were assuming we were buying with all this still in place (I know, I know, ‘to assume...’ etc). Didn’t think to ask if a seller has title deeds prior to offer going in, 🤔 

You haven't said the seller has no title deeds. That would be different. They (as far as we can tell) have title deeds, but their title is not (yet) registered. Unless your solicitor is really incompetent, she should be able to work out from the title deeds whether they have a valid title or not.

Right! I assumed the fact that the land register is showing as no registration/unregistered land for the ‘extra area’ meant there were no title deeds. 

We have seen no title deeds as part of the contract pack as yet which seems odd. 

Gosh this is confusing. I appreciate your help picking it apart and assisting me to make sense of it (I work in the third sector for a reason 😊).
I just hope we aren’t waiting too long, that really is my biggest worry 🙏🏽

mrsS_2

davidmcn said:

» show previous quotes

No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.            

This is what my solicitor did when we bought this house.  She pointed out that the first ten foot of the front garden wasn’t on the deeds ( basically over time the grass verges have been amalgamated into the gardens in the bottom half of the road) that it’s very common and she just registered the land so there were 2 deeds and then asked if I wanted them combined into one(which obviously I did).  It was simple I wasn’t even charged any extra for it.   But I was probably a bit lucky on that one!  Nothing to do with the selling side at all . Exchanged contracts 3 weeks after offer - but this was a few years ago and I think searches take longer now though.  I would ask your solicitor a few more questions as if the process is still the same, expecting the other sides solicitor to do it might actually cause a delay?

LLizz

mrsS_2 said:

davidmcn said:

» show previous quotes

No, I mean she registers your title for the unregistered part after completion (as well as registering your title for the registered part). Unfortunately many solicitors appear to be lazy and can't be bothered dealing with first registrations, so prefer to sit back and wait for the other solicitors to do it for them.            

This is what my solicitor did when we bought this house.  She pointed out that the first ten foot of the front garden wasn’t on the deeds ( basically over time the grass verges have been amalgamated into the gardens in the bottom half of the road) that it’s very common and she just registered the land so there were 2 deeds and then asked if I wanted them combined into one(which obviously I did).  It was simple I wasn’t even charged any extra for it.   But I was probably a bit lucky on that one!  Nothing to do with the selling side at all . Exchanged contracts 3 weeks after offer - but this was a few years ago and I think searches take longer now though.  I would ask your solicitor a few more questions as if the process is still the same, expecting the other sides solicitor to do it might actually cause a delay?

Okay, we will try this in the new year. 

At what point did your solicitor do this? I wonder, as if they did it before contract exchange and it all fell through, we’re going to have something in our name that shouldn’t be, no? 

I’m really not good at understanding how all this works. So grateful for decent legal help.