I need your opinion

Ditzy_Mitzy

If the commute is really that short, and it's all you do, I'd suggest selling the diesel Golf whilst it's still worth something and buying an equivalent petrol car.  If it's pre 2017 you'll avoid most of the punitive car tax rates too.  

Alanp

Or,   Buy an electric bike and some wet weather gear for the short commute, and keep the golf for longer journeys...

Supersonos

thegentleway said:

shinytop said:

Buying a new EV is going to be worse for the environment and more expensive than keeping most existing cars. 

How you defining worse for the environment? Not CO2 emissions I take it 

Edit: are electric cars worse for the environment? Myth busted: https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM

Whilst you're correct, no-one (like the OP) should ever be under the illusion that EVs are good for the environment.  

The manufacture, use and ultimate disposal of an EV still creates a huge amount of CO2 etc.  

DrEskimo

Supersonos said:

thegentleway said:

shinytop said:

Buying a new EV is going to be worse for the environment and more expensive than keeping most existing cars. 

How you defining worse for the environment? Not CO2 emissions I take it 

Edit: are electric cars worse for the environment? Myth busted: https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM

Whilst you're correct, no-one (like the OP) should ever be under the illusion that EVs are good for the environment.  

The manufacture, use and ultimate disposal of an EV still creates a huge amount of CO2 etc.  

I don't think that's what the OP is asking. They are asking whether running their current diesel is better or worse than an EV. Of course the best thing is not to run a car at all....

The footprint of an EV would depend entirely on where the EV is manufactured and where the electricity was from to charge it over it's lifetime. There is large variation in EVs built in say China, compared to those built in the EU (particularly in plants like BMW or Tesla's Gigafactory which run on 100% renewable energy).

A Nissan leaf built in Sunderland with very low carbon electricity generation charged off peak would have a substantially lower carbon footprint. It wouldn't take many miles for the carbon debt from manufacturing to be repaid relative to the CO2 produced from even a good economy diesel.

https://youtu.be/O1MeR6vOcv0

Manufacturing carbon output can all be reduced and will be reduced as the grid decarbonises. This is true of both ICE and EVs. What can't change with an ICE is the CO2 from fuel though, and this makes up the substantial bulk of its lifetime emissions.

Supersonos

The OP said he wanted an EV because they're "good for the environment".

DrEskimo

Supersonos said:

The OP said he wanted an EV because they're "good for the environment".

Well I thought it was fairly safe to assume they meant 'better for the environment than an ICE', but I take your point. They are certainly not 'good for the environment'. No car would be.

Not using a car at all would be the best thing to do, assuming it's practical. But swapping for an EV could certainly improve things if having a car is necessary. Particularly a used EV.

AdrianC

If it's a straight choice between buying a new EV and buying a new ICEV, both built in the same part of the world, then - yes.
Ish, because obvs there's differences in the resources used in construction.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Assuming it's a new Golf GT TD, which emits 106 gm of CO2 per kilometre, driving it 5,000 miles a year will produce 0.85 tonnes of carbon dioxide.  This means it will take a looooooooooong time for its tailpipe emissions to get anywhere near the pollution break even point for the construction of a new car, even if said new car doesn't produce any emissions at all.  

DrEskimo

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Assuming it's a new Golf GT TD, which emits 106 gm of CO2 per kilometre, driving it 5,000 miles a year will produce 0.85 tonnes of carbon dioxide.  This means it will take a looooooooooong time for its tailpipe emissions to get anywhere near the pollution break even point for the construction of a new car, even if said new car doesn't produce any emissions at all.  

1) It's not a GT TD, but a GTD. The 2020 model emits between 137-143g/km during the WLTP test cycle.
2) it's a 2013 model, which as we know would have had widely different real world emissions relative to the test cycle (as with most vehicles, as people don't typically drive like the test cycles...)
3) Diesel doesn't magically appear in the pump. Mining, refining and transporting can add up to 20% more as a conservative estimate.

Assuming more likely real world emissions accounting for the entire process, you are looking at closer to 200g/km, which would be around 1.6 tonnes per 5,000 miles. As already highlighted, an EV produced in a low carbon energy area like the north of England would emit around 2-3 tonnes for the chassis and battery manufacturing (not including raw material).

So less than 2-years/10,000 miles. Hardly long...

Even if you take more conservative estimates of 8.8 tonnes for an average mid-size EV, which assume much higher carbon energy mixes, you are still only looking at 5-years / 25,000 miles.

thegentleway

DrEskimo said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Assuming it's a new Golf GT TD, which emits 106 gm of CO2 per kilometre, driving it 5,000 miles a year will produce 0.85 tonnes of carbon dioxide.  This means it will take a looooooooooong time for its tailpipe emissions to get anywhere near the pollution break even point for the construction of a new car, even if said new car doesn't produce any emissions at all.  

1) It's not a GT TD, but a GTD. The 2020 model emits between 137-143g/km during the WLTP test cycle.
2) it's a 2013 model, which as we know would have had widely different real world emissions relative to the test cycle (as with most vehicles, as people don't typically drive like the test cycles...)
3) Diesel doesn't magically appear in the pump. Mining, refining and transporting can add up to 20% more as a conservative estimate.

Assuming more likely real world emissions accounting for the entire process, you are looking at closer to 200g/km, which would be around 1.6 tonnes per 5,000 miles. As already highlighted, an EV produced in a low carbon energy area like the north of England would emit around 2-3 tonnes for the chassis and battery manufacturing (not including raw material).

So less than 2-years/10,000 miles. Hardly long...

Even if you take more conservative estimates of 8.8 tonnes for an average mid-size EV, which assume much higher carbon energy mixes, you are still only looking at 5-years / 25,000 miles.

That's just the carbon. A 2013 diesel will also release a lot more particulates.